[Az-Geocaching] Box game brings out bomb squad
Brian - Team A.I.
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:41:13 -0700
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The cache at Disneyland was basically grandfathered in regards to the =
commercial cache ban. It was in place before that came down. There =
are/were caches inside the park placed by workers and maintained by them =
as well.
Now, I agree a heightened state of awareness is prudent. A state of =
paranoia, isn't.
You wanted to be shown someone who is (I'll replace that with WAS) =
rotting in prison without due process or habeas corpus. One comes to =
mind: Kevin Mitnick
Brian
Team A.I.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: William Noll=20
To: listserv@azgeocaching.com=20
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:27 AM
Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] Box game brings out bomb squad
>>Since a good conspiracy is an unprovable one...I do find it odd, =
however, that several years before 9/11, a foreign leader (Pakistan, I =
think) offered up Osama to the US, who flatly refused. Oops.
=20
=20
Part of the problem that was foreseen was that prior to the "War on =
Terrorism", terror suspects were treated as criminals afforded all =
rights within the U.S. Justice system. What could he have been held on? =
How soon before a high-profile defense attorney would have him sprung =
for lack of direct evidence? Then what?=20
9/11 events changed all that. Regardless of your opinion of GWB, it =
was a correct decision to essentially declare war on all countries who =
sponsor or harbor terrorists. Afghanistan was a start. Iraq was next =
(for those who think this was about getting our hand on a vast oil =
supply, have you seen gas prices, lately?). I notice Libya has gotten =
the message. Who's next? Syria? Iran? North Korea? France?
=20
As far as geocaching is concerned, Americans SHOULD be at a heightened =
level of AWARENESS. Why was there a cache container at Disneyland? Did =
the cache owner have permission from the landowner? Doubtful. Perhaps =
the proliferation of urban caches should remind people that perhaps the =
best place for a cache is in the middle of nowhere.
=20
As far as civil liberties are concerned, show me someone that is =
rotting in a U.S. prison without 1)due process, or 2)habeas corpus, that =
was not trained in a terrorist training camp. The Patriot Act allows law =
enforcement with a warrant to retrieve the library records of a suspect. =
Oh the humanity! Librarians went nuts! Civil liberties were on the verge =
of disappearing! But there was due process. And if you had a suspect =
that was researching bomb-making materials at the local tax-payer funded =
house of books, wouldn't that be evidence you would want to use in a =
trial? Don't librarians use record-keeping to charge you late fees? But =
that's okay, though.
=20
Admittedly, there are circumstances in which security is overblown. =
Been to the airport lately? How about the Hoover Dam? Both are =
ridiculously 'over-secure' for one threat-type but completely blind to =
others (I won't explain that statement, you either understand it or you =
don't)
=20
In closing, more geocaches in the Far West Valley!!!
=20
Bill
=20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The cache at Disneyland was basically =
grandfathered=20
in regards to the commercial cache ban. It was in place before =
that came=20
down. There are/were caches inside the park placed by workers and=20
maintained by them as well.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Now, I agree a heightened state of =
awareness is=20
prudent. A state of paranoia, isn't.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You wanted to be shown someone who is =
(I'll replace=20
that with WAS) rotting in prison without due process or habeas =
corpus. One=20
comes to mind: Kevin Mitnick</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Brian</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Team A.I.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dwnoll@cybertrails.com =
href=3D"mailto:wnoll@cybertrails.com">William=20
Noll</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dlistserv@azgeocaching.com=20
=
href=3D"mailto:listserv@azgeocaching.com">listserv@azgeocaching.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, March 28, 2004 =
7:27=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Az-Geocaching] =
Box game=20
brings out bomb squad</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">>></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Since a=20
good conspiracy is an unprovable one...I do find it odd, however, that =
several=20
years before 9/11, a foreign leader (<st1:country-region=20
w:st=3D"on">Pakistan</st1:country-region>, I think) offered up Osama =
to the=20
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:country-region=20
w:st=3D"on">US</st1:country-region></st1:place>, who flatly =
refused. =20
Oops.<FONT color=3Dnavy><SPAN=20
style=3D"COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Part of=20
the problem that was foreseen was that prior to the =93War on =
Terrorism=94, terror=20
suspects were treated as criminals afforded all rights within the U.S. =
Justice=20
system. What could he have been held on? How soon before a =
high-profile=20
defense attorney would have him sprung for lack of direct evidence? =
Then what?=20
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">9/11=20
events changed all that. Regardless of your opinion of GWB, it was a =
correct=20
decision to essentially declare war on all countries who sponsor or =
harbor=20
terrorists. <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">Afghanistan</st1:place></st1:country-region> was a start.=20
<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region> was next (for those =
who think=20
this was about getting our hand on a vast oil supply, have you seen =
gas=20
prices, lately?). I notice <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">Libya</st1:place></st1:country-region> has gotten the =
message. Who=92s=20
next? <st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">Syria</st1:place></st1:country-region>? =
<st1:country-region=20
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on">Iran</st1:place></st1:country-region>?=20
<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place w:st=3D"on">North=20
Korea</st1:place></st1:country-region>? <st1:country-region=20
w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
=
w:st=3D"on">France</st1:place></st1:country-region>?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></F=
ONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">As far=20
as geocaching is concerned, Americans SHOULD be at a heightened level =
of=20
AWARENESS. Why was there a cache container at <st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">Disneyland</st1:place>? Did the cache owner have =
permission from the=20
landowner? Doubtful. Perhaps the proliferation of urban caches should =
remind=20
people that perhaps the best place for a cache is in the middle of=20
nowhere.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">As far=20
as civil liberties are concerned, show me someone that is rotting in a =
<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">U.S.</st1:place></st1:country-region> prison without 1)due =
process,=20
or 2)habeas corpus, that was not trained in a terrorist training camp. =
The=20
Patriot Act allows law enforcement with a warrant to retrieve the =
library=20
records of a suspect. Oh the humanity! Librarians went nuts! Civil =
liberties=20
were on the verge of disappearing! But there was due process. And if =
you had a=20
suspect that was researching bomb-making materials at the local =
tax-payer=20
funded house of books, wouldn=92t that be evidence you would want to =
use in a=20
trial? Don=92t librarians use record-keeping to charge you late fees? =
But that=92s=20
okay, though.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Admittedly, =
there are=20
circumstances in which security is overblown. Been to the airport =
lately? How=20
about the <st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place=20
w:st=3D"on">Hoover</st1:place></st1:City> Dam? Both are ridiculously=20
=91over-secure=92 for one threat-type but completely blind to others =
(I won=92t=20
explain that statement, you either understand it or you=20
don=92t)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">In=20
closing, more geocaches in the <st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName=20
w:st=3D"on">Far West</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType=20
=
w:st=3D"on">Valley</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>!!!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Bill<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in"><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY=
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