[Az-Geocaching] Re: Az-Geocaching digest, Vol 1 #1697 - 2 msgs
J H/TEAM 360
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:46:33 -0800 (PST)
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I posted this on the gc.com forums in a thread about a similar situation in which a Disneyland cache (micro) was discovered just before an attraction reopened, resulting in a delay while it was investigated:
...society has been conditioned to a state of hypervigilant paranoia, resulting in stupid scenarios like ammo cans being blown up under a rock pile. It wouldn't matter if the ammo can was clear plexiglass, with nothing more than a fully translucent logbook that made it clear the object being looked at is nothing more than an object, and not an explosive device. Someone would still freak out over it, and thousands of dollars would be wasted. Heck, there could be a blanket understanding/approval by law enforcement for a specific type of cache container that we were allowed to use, and yet someone would still call and we'd find TBs blown sky high by disruptors.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't take everything I see as a surgically-altered Osama, and freak out everytime I see someone breathe.
But following that officer's logic, hikers are candidates for the Bataan Death March, mountain bikers are Hells Angels and rock climbers are suicidal...well, that may actually be the case but still. ;)
I understand that bombs and explosives are real. In seconds, I could have a recipe for ammonia, nitrogen or hydrogen tri-iodide, by doing a simple Google search. But the mere presence of that information doesn't mean it exists or that authorities need to be called to investigate. That being said, a box, ammo can or Rubbermaid container stashed under a bush isn't always cause to just go off the deep end and call out so many resources. In all honesty, most of them stand around waiting for something to happen while a select few do the real grunt work.
In my position, I have seen liberties disrupted. Whenever the Terror Alert Wheel O' Color stops on Orange, operations at work are quite overtly affected. Should we ever go to Red, I'll be walking into a heavily armed prison when I get to work each day. But in everyday life, I can't say that the changes have been so clear. It's my sheer disagreement with the removal of our civil liberties in the name of protecting us from a faceless enemy that is the issue. As with something such as gun control, the only people affected are the ones with the right to have them. There are enough enemies of the United States that we could make up quite a few people from every conceivable nationailty, race, or color. Some would be the model of what the Aryan Nation hope to make this world, while others would be model Black Panther recruits. Still, we would have at least some who prefer sushi over pizza and the Qu'ran to the KJV Bible.
I don't think that we should just sit back, drink beer and become complacent to the goings on in this world, but too little is being done to protect the country from the outside, at our expense. A porous Mexican border has been used to smuggle al Qaida members into the country (I've read the intelligence to confirm this), and still lacking security measures at international ports of entry have allowed even more to get through. Just 2 nights ago, I received calls about a semi carrying UDAs. Keep in mind that this was a double trailer semi with people stacked shoulder-to-shoulder. Conceivably, there could have been upwards of 500 people between them. Who is to say that 3 or 4 of them weren't radical fundamentalists from a group who disagrees with what the US is, and want to drive a bomb-laden car into a major metropolitan mall?
<Conspiracy Theory Moment>
Not too long ago, I heard rumblings that the Joint Chiefs 10+ years ago contemplated allowing a terrorist attack on US soil, with the hopes that it would soften the public opinion on increased military spending. This, if I recall correctly, wasn't too long before the first WTC bombing, which would have been considered only marginally successful by measuring public opinion. Oklahoma City was another significant blow, but apparently not enough. It wasn't until the Twin Towers finally fell that everybody was gung-ho military, chanting "kill 'em all" in response to the atrocity, and demanding that we carpet bomb someone, something, somewhere. Since a good conspiracy is an unprovable one...I do find it odd, however, that several years before 9/11, a foreign leader (Pakistan, I think) offered up Osama to the US, who flatly refused. Oops.
</Conspiracy Theory Moment>
Now I don't spend every waking moment looking over my shoulder, but I'm aware of what goes on around me. The day I start putting surveillance cameras around my home to start watching anyone of 'arab' descent, or that just looks mean, is the day I drive off a cliff and fuggedaboutit, because I've already gone over the edge. There's too much paranoia, and not enough protection in the right places.
Brian
Team A.I.
I could not agree more. Very well stated!!
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I posted this on the gc.com forums in a thread about a similar situation in which a Disneyland cache (micro) was discovered just before an attraction reopened, resulting in a delay while it was investigated:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>...society has been conditioned to a state of hypervigilant paranoia, resulting in stupid scenarios like ammo cans being blown up under a rock pile. It wouldn't matter if the ammo can was clear plexiglass, with nothing more than a fully translucent logbook that made it clear the object being looked at is nothing more than an object, and not an explosive device. Someone would still freak out over it, and thousands of dollars would be wasted. Heck, there could be a blanket understanding/approval by law enforcement for a specific type of cache container that we were allowed to use, and yet someone would still call and we'd find TBs blown sky high by disruptors.<BR><BR>Maybe it's just me, but I don't take everything I see as a surgically-altered Osama, and freak out everytime I see someone breathe.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But following that officer's logic, hikers are candidates for the Bataan Death March, mountain bikers are Hells Angels and rock climbers are suicidal...well, that may actually be the case but still. ;)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I understand that bombs and explosives are real. In seconds, I could have a recipe for ammonia, nitrogen or hydrogen tri-iodide, by doing a simple Google search. But the mere presence of that information doesn't mean it exists or that authorities need to be called to investigate. That being said, a box, ammo can or Rubbermaid container stashed under a bush isn't always cause to just go off the deep end and call out so many resources. In all honesty, most of them stand around waiting for something to happen while a select few do the real grunt work.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In my position, I have seen liberties disrupted. Whenever the Terror Alert Wheel O' Color stops on Orange, operations at work are quite overtly affected. Should we ever go to Red, I'll be walking into a heavily armed prison when I get to work each day. But in everyday life, I can't say that the changes have been so clear. It's my sheer disagreement with the removal of our civil liberties in the name of protecting us from a faceless enemy that is the issue. As with something such as gun control, the only people affected are the ones with the right to have them. There are enough enemies of the United States that we could make up quite a few people from every conceivable nationailty, race, or color. Some would be the model of what the Aryan Nation hope to make this world, while others would be model Black Panther recruits. Still, we would have at least some who prefer sushi over pizza and the Qu'r
an to
the KJV Bible. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't think that we should just sit back, drink beer and become complacent to the goings on in this world, but too little is being done to protect the country from the outside, at our expense. A porous Mexican border has been used to smuggle al Qaida members into the country (I've read the intelligence to confirm this), and still lacking security measures at international ports of entry have allowed even more to get through. Just 2 nights ago, I received calls about a semi carrying UDAs. Keep in mind that this was a double trailer semi with people stacked shoulder-to-shoulder. Conceivably, there could have been upwards of 500 people between them. Who is to say that 3 or 4 of them weren't radical fundamentalists from a group who disagrees with what the US is, and want to drive a bomb-laden car into a major metropolitan mall?<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><Conspiracy Theory Moment></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Not too long ago, I heard rumblings that the Joint Chiefs 10+ years ago contemplated allowing a terrorist attack on US soil, with the hopes that it would soften the public opinion on increased military spending. This, if I recall correctly, wasn't too long before the first WTC bombing, which would have been considered only marginally successful by measuring public opinion. Oklahoma City was another significant blow, but apparently not enough. It wasn't until the Twin Towers finally fell that everybody was gung-ho military, chanting "kill 'em all" in response to the atrocity, and demanding that we carpet bomb someone, something, somewhere. Since a good conspiracy is an unprovable one...I do find it odd, however, that several years before 9/11, a foreign leader (Pakistan, I think) offered up Osama to the US, who flatly refused. Oops.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></Conspiracy Theory Moment></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now I don't spend every waking moment looking over my shoulder, but I'm aware of what goes on around me. The day I start putting surveillance cameras around my home to start watching anyone of 'arab' descent, or that just looks mean, is the day I drive off a cliff and fuggedaboutit, because I've already gone over the edge. There's too much paranoia, and not enough protection in the right places.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Brian</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Team A.I.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=3><STRONG>I could not agree more. Very well stated!!</STRONG></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr size=1><font face=arial size=-1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html"><b>Yahoo! Finance Tax Center</a></b> - File online. File on time.
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