[Az-Geocaching] Virtually Confounded

Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:37:06 -0700

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Steve,
=20
I have to admit that I sometimes get frustrated by the multi-question
approach.  After all, as you stated, isn't that just to offer proof of =
the
visit?  I even sometimes avoid virtuals that are too complicated.  On =
the
other hand, reading back on my log of "Informal Introductions" I see =
that I
admitted it was one of my favorites.  Doh, never admit anything in =
writing.
OK, so here's what I would suggest:
=20
- Update the page with a hint if you can, but don't risk losing the =
listing.
- Accept the log for difficult situations like the visitor if you can be
sure they actually found it.
- Require all others to answer all questions, but offer personalized =
hints
if requested.
- Above all else, BE CONSISTENT.
=20
Just my opinion, and it appears you've been down all of those paths =
already,
so I guess I didn't offer much but confirmation.
=20
Bill
CacheLess

-----Original Message-----
From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com
[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Team
Tierra Buena
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 11:35 AM
To: Arizona Geocaching
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Virtually Confounded

Many of you have done our "Informal Introductions" virtual cache =
(GCAB5C).
For those of you that haven't, it's a very kid-friendly hunt that =
requires
the seeker to provide us with the answers to five questions. Finding the
answer to the fifth question is a little bit trickier than most =
virtuals, so
we rated the difficulty at 2.

I've become surprised by the number of people who have sent emails that
contain either an incorrect answer to question 5, or an admission that =
they
were unable to find that answer; these cachers then log as "finds". The
cache page states "emailing incomplete or incorrect answers may result =
in
our deleting your log entry without notice".

On one hand, the purpose of answering the questions to a virtual is to =
prove
that the seeker was in the right place. So if you get four out of five
correct, it's pretty obvious the seeker was there. And we did let one =
guy
skate because he was visiting from out-of-state, and had already left =
town
when he emailed his answers. But many people have returned a second time
after being told that they got it wrong, and they were then able to find =
the
correct answer.

So whaddya think? Should we strictly enforce our own rule out of =
fairness to
those who have gotten all the right answers or have gone back to finish =
the
hunt, or should we say "it's only a game" and let them take the credit =
for
the find? I should point out that finding the correct answer to the =
fifth
question brings the seeker to a particularly clever aspect of this =
entire
area, which is why we set the question we did.

We talked about using only that question instead of five, but we =
followed
Highpointer's approach to his museum cache series, where finding the =
answers
to all the questions takes the seeker around the entire area, which is =
what
we want them to do. We don't want them just running in, finding one =
answer
and taking off for the next cache.

We've also discussed raising the difficulty level to 3 and/or modifying =
the
cache description to state specifically that the correct answer to =
question
5 must be submitted, but I'm afraid that making any modifications to the
cache page might result in it's being re-evaluated under the current
guidelines for virtuals, and then we might be forced to archive a cache =
that
always gets positive log comments.

We welcome your comments and suggestions, but please avoid posting =
anything
that might be a spoiler. TIA.

Steve

Team Tierra Buena

=20

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<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Steve,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I have=20
to admit that I sometimes get frustrated by the multi-question =
approach.&nbsp;=20
After all, as you stated, isn't that just to offer proof of the =
visit?&nbsp; I=20
even sometimes avoid virtuals that are too complicated.&nbsp; On the =
other hand,=20
reading back on my log of "Informal Introductions" I see that I admitted =
it was=20
one of my favorites.&nbsp; Doh, never&nbsp;admit anything in =
writing.&nbsp; OK,=20
so here's what I would suggest:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>-=20
Update the page with a hint if you can, but don't risk losing the=20
listing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>-=20
Accept the log for difficult situations like the visitor if you can be =
sure they=20
actually found it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>-=20
Require all others to answer all questions, but offer personalized hints =
if=20
requested.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>-=20
Above all else, BE CONSISTENT.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Just=20
my opinion, and it appears you've been down all of those paths already, =
so I=20
guess I didn't offer much but confirmation.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Bill</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D107323019-26102003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>CacheLess</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20
  [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] <B>On Behalf Of =

  </B>Team Tierra Buena<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, October 26, 2003 11:35=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> Arizona Geocaching<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Az-Geocaching] =

Virtually Confounded </DIV>
 <DIV class=3DSection1>
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Many of you have done =
our=20
 &#8220;Informal Introductions&#8221; virtual cache (GCAB5C). For those =
of you that=20
 haven&#8217;t, it&#8217;s a very kid-friendly hunt that requires the =
seeker to provide us=20
 with the answers to five questions. Finding the answer to the fifth =
question=20
 is a little bit trickier than most virtuals, so we rated the =
difficulty at=20
 2.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I&#8217;ve become =
surprised by the=20
 number of people who have sent emails that contain either an incorrect =
answer=20
 to question 5, or an admission that they were unable to find that =
answer;=20
 these cachers then log as &#8220;finds&#8221;. The cache page states =
&#8220;emailing incomplete=20
 or incorrect answers may result in our deleting your log entry without =

notice&#8221;.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">On one hand, the purpose =
of=20
 answering the questions to a virtual is to prove that the seeker was =
in the=20
 right place. So if you get four out of five correct, it&#8217;s pretty =
obvious the=20
 seeker was there. And we did let one guy skate because he was visiting =
from=20
 out-of-state, and had already left town when he emailed his answers. =
But many=20
 people have returned a second time after being told that they got it =
wrong,=20
 and they were then able to find the correct answer.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">So whaddya think? Should =
we=20
 strictly enforce our own rule out of fairness to those who have gotten =
all the=20
 right answers or have gone back to finish the hunt, or should we say =
&#8220;it&#8217;s=20
 only a game&#8221; and let them take the credit for the find? I should =
point out=20
 that finding the correct answer to the fifth question brings the =
seeker to a=20
 particularly clever aspect of this entire area, which is why we set =
the=20
 question we did.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We talked about using =
only that=20
 question instead of five, but we followed Highpointer&#8217;s approach =
to his museum=20
 cache series, where finding the answers to all the questions takes the =
seeker=20
 around the entire area, which is what we want them to do. We =
don&#8217;t want them=20
 just running in, finding one answer and taking off for the next=20
 cache.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We&#8217;ve also =
discussed raising the=20
 difficulty level to 3 and/or modifying the cache description to state=20
 specifically that the correct answer to question 5 must be submitted, =
but I&#8217;m=20
 afraid that making any modifications to the cache page might result in =
it&#8217;s=20
 being re-evaluated under the current guidelines for virtuals, and then =
we=20
 might be forced to archive a cache that always gets positive log=20
 comments.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We welcome your comments =
and=20
 suggestions, but please avoid posting anything that might be a =
spoiler.=20
 TIA.
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Steve
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Team Tierra=20
Buena
 <SPAN=20
 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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