Message

<= /DIV>

Rand (RandMan)

On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 at= 12:28 p.m. Trish asked:

=
Did Jeff go somewhere? I didn't see that mentioned anyplace.
Trisha

On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:30:48 -0700, "RAND HARDIN" w= rote:

Be careful Trish! If I were you I'd be looking ove= r my shoulder.
[;-)] (How are your caches doing?) [= :-D] I'm sorry to see Jeff
go. I've never been able to&nb= sp;visit any of his caches. I understand he
had/has some good on= es. Rand

------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C304F8.10AED680-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Thu Apr 17 22:53:02 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Mark Heitowit) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 15:53:02 -0700 Subject: [Re: [Az-Geocaching] Possible threat to geocaches???] Message-ID: <130HDqw2c2576S07.1050619982@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net> I just received an email copy of him re-logging his find as Team 360. He had previously deleted his original Indiana Jeff log. "RAND HARDIN" wrote: > --------------------------------------------- > Attachment:� > MIME Type:�multipart/alternative > --------------------------------------------- > > Trish, > > Jeff deleted all of his cache and benchmark finds. He also pulled all of his caches. He made a comment in the forums that he was through with caching. Jeff deleted all of his posts regarding the avatar except one. On page two of the thread on April 14, at 9:06 a.m. Jeff said: ". . . and after a year and a half, 36 caches and 8 benchmarks found, with 6 caches hidden, I deleted all my logs, caches and benchmarks. . . ." > > I did a search for "Indiana Jeff" and "Team 360" and came up with nothing. > > Rand (RandMan) > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 at 12:28 p.m. Trish asked: > > Did Jeff go somewhere? I didn't see that mentioned anyplace. > > Trisha > > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:30:48 -0700, "RAND HARDIN" wrote: > > Be careful Trish! If I were you I'd be looking over my shoulder. > [;-)] (How are your caches doing?) [:-D] I'm sorry to see Jeff > go. I've never been able to visit any of his caches. I understand he > had/has some good ones. Rand > From listserv@azgeocaching.com Thu Apr 17 23:13:04 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Aus Dem Kasten) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:13:04 -0700 Subject: [Re: [Az-Geocaching] Possible threat to geocaches???] In-Reply-To: <130HDqw2c2576S07.1050619982@uwdvg007.cms.usa.net> Message-ID: <001701c30536$e64d62f0$1f14a8c0@jon> I received the same type of log and I got a kick out of reading Team 360's new bio. Looks like Team 360 is back. :-) Aus Dem Kasten -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Mark Heitowit Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 3:53 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: Re: [Re: [Az-Geocaching] Possible threat to geocaches???] I just received an email copy of him re-logging his find as Team 360. He had previously deleted his original Indiana Jeff log. "RAND HARDIN" wrote: > --------------------------------------------- > Attachment:� > MIME Type:�multipart/alternative > --------------------------------------------- > > Trish, > > Jeff deleted all of his cache and benchmark finds. He also pulled all of his caches. He made a comment in the forums that he was through with caching. Jeff deleted all of his posts regarding the avatar except one. On page two of the thread on April 14, at 9:06 a.m. Jeff said: ". . . and after a year and a half, 36 caches and 8 benchmarks found, with 6 caches hidden, I deleted all my logs, caches and benchmarks. . . ." > > I did a search for "Indiana Jeff" and "Team 360" and came up with nothing. > > Rand (RandMan) > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 at 12:28 p.m. Trish asked: > > Did Jeff go somewhere? I didn't see that mentioned anyplace. > > Trisha > > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:30:48 -0700, "RAND HARDIN" wrote: > > Be careful Trish! If I were you I'd be looking over my shoulder. > [;-)] (How are your caches doing?) [:-D] I'm sorry to see Jeff > go. I've never been able to visit any of his caches. I understand he > had/has some good ones. Rand > ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 00:27:45 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (gale and mike) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 00:27:45 +0000 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Welcome back Message-ID:

I don't know him, but I'm glad he's back. He found an interesting and old benchmark. He deleted that log and picture before I could see it. Now it's back. To those who know him, please tell him "welcome back".

>From: "Aus Dem Kasten"

>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com

>To:

>Subject: RE: [Re: [Az-Geocaching] Possible threat to geocaches???]

>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 16:13:04 -0700

>I received the same type of log and I got a kick out of reading Team

>360's new bio. Looks like Team 360 is back. :-)

>Aus Dem Kasten

>-----Original Message-----

>From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com

>[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Mark

>Heitowit

>Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 3:53 PM

>To: listserv@azgeocaching.com

>Subject: Re: [Re: [Az-Geocaching] Possible threat to geocaches???]

>I just received an email copy of him re-logging his find as Team 360. He

>had

>previously deleted his original Indiana Jeff log.

>"RAND HARDIN" wrote:

> > ---------------------------------------------

> > Attachment:

> > MIME Type: multipart/alternative

> > ---------------------------------------------

> >

> > Trish,

> >

> > Jeff deleted all of his cache and benchmark finds. He also pulled all

>of

>his caches. He made a comment in the forums that he was through with

>caching.

> Jeff deleted all of his posts regarding the avatar except one. On

>page two

>of the thread on April 14, at 9:06 a.m. Jeff said: ". . . and after a

>year and

>a half, 36 caches and 8 benchmarks found, with 6 caches hidden, I

>deleted all

>my logs, caches and benchmarks. . . ."

> >

> > I did a search for "Indiana Jeff" and "Team 360" and came up with

>nothing.

> >

> > Rand (RandMan)

> > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 at 12:28 p.m. Trish asked:

> >

> > Did Jeff go somewhere? I didn't see that mentioned anyplace.

> >

> > Trisha

> >

> > On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 07:30:48 -0700, "RAND HARDIN" wrote:

> >

> > Be careful Trish! If I were you I'd be looking over my shoulder.

> > [;-)] (How are your caches doing?) [:-D] I'm sorry to see Jeff

> > go. I've never been able to visit any of his caches. I understand he

> > had/has some good ones. Rand

> >

>____________________________________________________________

>Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com

>To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:

>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching

>Arizona's Geocaching Resource

>http://www.azgeocaching.com

>____________________________________________________________

>Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com

>To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:

>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching

>Arizona's Geocaching Resource

>http://www.azgeocaching.com

Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 06:24:34 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Team Tierra Buena) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 23:24:34 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] (LONG) Shamelessly Purloined from the New York Times Message-ID: <002f01c30573$3035b570$6401a8c0@DESKTOP> I believe access to the link of the "Times" article below is by subscription only, so forgive me if my posting the entire item is hogging your bandwidth. At least it's nominally on-topic. Every time I violate copyright law in this way I am reminded of this wonderful lyric: "Plagiarize! Let no one else's work evade your eyes! Remember why the Good Lord made your eyes, so don't shade your eyes, But plagiarize! Plagiarize! Plagiarize! Only be sure you should call it, please... research." Tom Lehrer "Lobachevsky" Steve Team Tierra Buena ======================================================================== = April 17, 2003 On the Ground in Iraq, the Best Compass Is in the Sky By SETH SCHIESEL On an afternoon early this month, in the desert near Najaf, Iraq, elements of an elite United States Army unit received word of a column of almost 60 vehicles, including about two dozen tanks, moving along a nearby road. Some of the soldiers thought it could be Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard. Then a general in his Humvee leaned over to a computer console that is part of a satellite-based navigation system called FBCB2. He tapped in the military grid coordinates where the mystery force was located. Then on the screen, up popped the little blue symbols that represent friendly units, rather than the red icons that the United States military uses to designate enemy forces. It was not the Republican Guard. It was a separate United States division. During the cold war and even the 1991 Persian Gulf war, satellite technology was not an everyday part of the lives of foot soldiers or even generals. But in the Iraqi desert, satellite technology - specifically the Global Positioning System, or G.P.S. - has become a fundamental and pervasive navigation tool for ground forces. G.P.S. gadgetry has become almost as much a part of army life as shovels and cigarettes - whether integrated into vehicles in advanced systems like FBCB2 (often referred to as "blue-force tracker"), used in the hand-held receiver known to soldiers as the Plugger, or even bought off the shelf. "Primarily the way that G.P.S. technologies have changed the way the army can perform its mission is it has given us a more accurate way to navigate the battle space," said Lt. Col. William S. Harborth, the Army's product manager for Global Positioning System technology. That means the devices simply help soldiers figure out where they are. Perhaps even more important, the ability to define location precisely can help soldiers figure out where other units are. "Increased accuracy is more important because if you know better where you are, you can ensure that you reduce fratricide," Colonel Harborth said. "In the old days, there was some human error in determining your location on the ground." Satellite navigation continues to be crucial for long-range weapons like cruise missiles, and G.P.S. is essential in the sort of unmanned aircraft that saw their first broad deployment in Afghanistan. In contrast, the main such tool among ground troops, the Plugger, is in some ways less sophisticated than gear found at Wal-Mart or in rental cars - its utility in traversing the open desert diminished as forces entered urban areas, for example, since roads and landmarks are not programmed into it. Still, the increasing use of satellite-based systems for navigation - and for "situational awareness," in military parlance - is one of the biggest changes in United States ground operations since the 1991 gulf war. During that war, the Global Positioning Satellite network was in its infancy, and among front-line units, a single G.P.S. receiver might be allotted to an army company, perhaps numbering 180 soldiers in the infantry. Now the Army says that it has more than 100,000 Pluggers (the name is derived from the initials for their full name, PLGR for Precision Lightweight G.P.S. Receiver). In Iraq, the leader of each combat squad, which might include nine soldiers, often has a Plugger at hand; in some Army units, Pluggers are even more numerous. The Marines have adopted the technology more cautiously. Matthew Brandt, the Marines' project manager for G.P.S., said the corps had purchased only about 5,400 of the units and generally deployed them at the platoon level. (A platoon might include three to five squads.) That may be one reason that at least some marines are carrying their own civilian-grade G.P.S. devices from home. The civilian devices, made by companies including Garmin International, are typically smaller than Pluggers and, though not quite as precise as Pluggers, are apparently sufficient for everyday purposes. Those purposes can be as trivial as finding the chow line. Before the shooting started in Iraq, some soldiers in front-line units were using their Pluggers to navigate through the dark and sand to the mess tent. As with most technologies, however, satellite navigation is only as useful as the human intelligence guiding its use. For instance, in late March an American military detachment was sent to pick up some prisoners near Najaf. The soldiers were told the coordinates of the captives. Their Plugger unit worked fine and the soldiers reached the coordinates. But they did not find the prisoners there. Instead, they came close to a mortar attack. The human intelligence had failed, not the device. And even with the growing use of satellite navigation devices, there are gaps. A prominent setback for the Army in the early days of the war was the ambush of members of the 507th Maintenance Company near Nasiriya, Iraq, in which eight soldiers were killed. A private captured in the confrontation, Jessica D. Lynch, was later rescued, and five others taken prisoner were found alive north of Baghdad on Sunday. The Nasiriya episode, which occurred while the soldiers were traveling in a convoy of trucks and other vehicles, was initially attributed to their having taken a wrong turn off a major highway. The Army has refused to comment publicly on precise details of the incident, and more recent accounts indicate that the convoy was ambushed after having stopped to repair vehicles. But a technology expert with the American forces in the region and a civilian expert on military G.P.S. both said it was unlikely in any case that the captured unit had a G.P.S. device on board. While Plugger units are almost ubiquitous among front-line combat units, they remain less common among units like maintenance companies, which are not generally meant to engage the enemy. Even soldiers who have Pluggers are relying on devices that are in some ways primitive compared with their civilian counterparts. It is a curious position for the Pentagon, the driving force behind the creation of the constellation of 24 G.P.S. satellites in the 1980's and 90's. The Plugger devices remain largely unchanged since their initial deployment in 1994 (although their cost has fallen from about $2,000 each to less than $1,000), and for many purposes, the relatively scant information they provide is sufficient. Soldiers can specify their destination, and the unit will tell them what direction to go. Using encrypted satellite signals reserved for government use, they are accurate to within roughly 10 yards, compared with 20 to 25 yards for civilian devices. Built for resilience in combat, they are big (roughly the size of a small shoebox), heavy (about 2.75 pounds) and have a small text-based display incapable of showing maps or other information. In general, the units, which are made by Rockwell Collins, display only location, velocity (if the unit is moving) and time. Civilian G.P.S. devices like the NeverLost system in Hertz rental cars, in contrast, are often able to display maps and other information. The advanced graphical FBCB2 system used in Army combat vehicles, in contrast, allows commanders to electronically "see" broad swaths of a battlefield. In the version of FBCB2 known as "blue-force tracker," far-flung United States units not only receive their location information from G.P.S. but also communicate with one another using other classified satellite systems. Other versions of FBCB2 units receive their location from G.P.S. but communicate with one another using land-based radio. (In either case, the system is connected by cable to a Plugger, which serves as the actual location-detection device. In fact, more than half of the Pluggers in the Army are not used in a hand-held mode. Rather they are used as "slave'' location-detection devices for other systems, which include air-defense batteries in addition to FBCB2.) FBCB2, which has been in development since 1997, has been deployed in practically every tank and Bradley fighting vehicle in the Fourth Infantry Division, said Michael Lebrun, deputy director in the Army's command, control, communication and computers office. Elements of the Fourth Infantry, which in some ways is the most technically advanced of the army's infantry divisions, are on the way to Iraq. The FBCB2 system displays the location of similarly equipped units in the area as blue icons. When any of the units spot enemy forces, they enter their location into the system. They are then displayed as red icons, and that information is relayed to other FBCB2 trackers. Mr. Lebrun said that over the last seven or eight months, FBCB2 was deployed to other army divisions, though generally company by company. A tank company might include three platoons, each with four tanks. For foot soldiers without access to the FBCB2, however, satellite navigation usually means getting their location from the Plugger and then using a paper map to plot their location manually. That is why the Pentagon is ordering a new generation of hand-held G.P.S. devices, to be known as DAGR, pronounced "Dagger," for Defense Advanced G.P.S. Receiver. Rockwell Collins is competing with Raytheon for the right to produce the new system, which is scheduled to reach everyday soldiers next year. The Pentagon is to pick the winning company in September. "Plugger is about 12 years old, and if you can make an analogy to the commercial electronics marketplace, just think about your cordless phone you had at home 10 years ago versus now," said Mark Youhanaie, Raytheon's strategy director for G.P.S. products. "Now, we can make these receivers more accurate. We can acquire the satellite signal more quickly. It has higher jam immunity, and we can give you that all in a package that is a quarter of the size of the old Plugger system." For now, it appears that the Rockwell Collins contender is a bit smaller than Raytheon's, while Raytheon's boasts a bigger screen. Whichever company wins, however, the Dagger will weigh only about a pound and will be much smaller than the Plugger. Perhaps most important, the new devices will allow soldiers to see not just lines of coordinate numbers, but also a map that shows their location in relation to objects like minefields, rivers and enemy positions. The units will also incorporate graphical user interfaces. Drawing a comparison to generations of computer operating systems, Steve Jones, the Rockwell Collins marketing manager for land navigation products, said that "Plugger is DOS, and Dagger is Windows." By plugging the Dagger system into a military radio, soldiers may be able to display their location on the screens of nearby Dagger units or more advanced FBCB2 systems, Mr. Jones said. The Dagger devices, which are meant to initially cost about $2,000 each, will be more advanced than the Plugger in other ways as well. While the Plugger receives its encrypted signals at 1,575 megahertz, the band also used for civilian G.P.S. devices, the Dagger will also be able to pick up signals at the government-only 1,227-megahertz band, allowing for additional accuracy. The 1,227 band is now used largely for military aircraft, cruise missiles and other airborne systems, military officials say. The new system will also track all 12 G.P.S. satellites in each hemisphere at once. The old units can only track five satellites at once, and signals from four satellites are required to establish a three-dimensional position. In addition, current G.P.S. receivers are somewhat vulnerable to enemy equipment that beams false G.P.S. signals to indicate the wrong location, a technique known as spoofing. The Dagger is meant to include classified technology that will help the device verify that the signal it is receiving is actually coming from a United States G.P.S. satellite. It is still unclear just how many of the new devices will reach United States soldiers. "The plan was to replace all of the Pluggers in one year,'' said Mr. Brandt of the Marines, "and of course that depends on how much money Congress decides to give us, which is never certain." But no matter how many are ultimately deployed, the new devices are meant to give the soldiers perhaps the most precious commodity on the modern battlefield besides life itself: information. "The key is greater situational awareness for our soldiers so we bring them home alive," Colonel Harborth said. "That's it." Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 07:02:51 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Regan Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 00:02:51 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] (LONG) Shamelessly Purloined from the New York Times References: <002f01c30573$3035b570$6401a8c0@DESKTOP> Message-ID: <000901c30578$87aa3880$c421b83f@fishkiller> lo-jack explained :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Team Tierra Buena" To: "Arizona Geocaching" Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 11:24 PM Subject: [Az-Geocaching] (LONG) Shamelessly Purloined from the New York Times > I believe access to the link of the "Times" article below is by > subscription only, so forgive me if my posting the entire item is > hogging your bandwidth. At least it's nominally on-topic. > > Every time I violate copyright law in this way I am reminded of this > wonderful lyric: > > "Plagiarize! > Let no one else's work evade your eyes! > Remember why the Good Lord made your eyes, so don't shade your eyes, > But plagiarize! Plagiarize! Plagiarize! > > Only be sure you should call it, please... research." > > Tom Lehrer > "Lobachevsky" > > Steve > Team Tierra Buena > > ======================================================================== > = > > April 17, 2003 > On the Ground in Iraq, the Best Compass Is in the Sky > By SETH SCHIESEL > > > On an afternoon early this month, in the desert near Najaf, Iraq, > elements of an elite United States Army unit received word of a column > of almost 60 vehicles, including about two dozen tanks, moving along a > nearby road. > > Some of the soldiers thought it could be Saddam Hussein's Republican > Guard. > > Then a general in his Humvee leaned over to a computer console that is > part of a satellite-based navigation system called FBCB2. He tapped in > the military grid coordinates where the mystery force was located. Then > on the screen, up popped the little blue symbols that represent friendly > units, rather than the red icons that the United States military uses to > designate enemy forces. > > It was not the Republican Guard. It was a separate United States > division. > > During the cold war and even the 1991 Persian Gulf war, satellite > technology was not an everyday part of the lives of foot soldiers or > even generals. But in the Iraqi desert, satellite technology - > specifically the Global Positioning System, or G.P.S. - has become a > fundamental and pervasive navigation tool for ground forces. > > G.P.S. gadgetry has become almost as much a part of army life as shovels > and cigarettes - whether integrated into vehicles in advanced systems > like FBCB2 (often referred to as "blue-force tracker"), used in the > hand-held receiver known to soldiers as the Plugger, or even bought off > the shelf. > > "Primarily the way that G.P.S. technologies have changed the way the > army can perform its mission is it has given us a more accurate way to > navigate the battle space," said Lt. Col. William S. Harborth, the > Army's product manager for Global Positioning System technology. > > That means the devices simply help soldiers figure out where they are. > Perhaps even more important, the ability to define location precisely > can help soldiers figure out where other units are. > > "Increased accuracy is more important because if you know better where > you are, you can ensure that you reduce fratricide," Colonel Harborth > said. "In the old days, there was some human error in determining your > location on the ground." > > Satellite navigation continues to be crucial for long-range weapons like > cruise missiles, and G.P.S. is essential in the sort of unmanned > aircraft that saw their first broad deployment in Afghanistan. In > contrast, the main such tool among ground troops, the Plugger, is in > some ways less sophisticated than gear found at Wal-Mart or in rental > cars - its utility in traversing the open desert diminished as forces > entered urban areas, for example, since roads and landmarks are not > programmed into it. > > Still, the increasing use of satellite-based systems for navigation - > and for "situational awareness," in military parlance - is one of the > biggest changes in United States ground operations since the 1991 gulf > war. > > During that war, the Global Positioning Satellite network was in its > infancy, and among front-line units, a single G.P.S. receiver might be > allotted to an army company, perhaps numbering 180 soldiers in the > infantry. Now the Army says that it has more than 100,000 Pluggers (the > name is derived from the initials for their full name, PLGR for > Precision Lightweight G.P.S. Receiver). In Iraq, the leader of each > combat squad, which might include nine soldiers, often has a Plugger at > hand; in some Army units, Pluggers are even more numerous. > > The Marines have adopted the technology more cautiously. Matthew Brandt, > the Marines' project manager for G.P.S., said the corps had purchased > only about 5,400 of the units and generally deployed them at the platoon > level. (A platoon might include three to five squads.) > > That may be one reason that at least some marines are carrying their own > civilian-grade G.P.S. devices from home. The civilian devices, made by > companies including Garmin International, are typically smaller than > Pluggers and, though not quite as precise as Pluggers, are apparently > sufficient for everyday purposes. > > Those purposes can be as trivial as finding the chow line. Before the > shooting started in Iraq, some soldiers in front-line units were using > their Pluggers to navigate through the dark and sand to the mess tent. > > As with most technologies, however, satellite navigation is only as > useful as the human intelligence guiding its use. For instance, in late > March an American military detachment was sent to pick up some prisoners > near Najaf. The soldiers were told the coordinates of the captives. > > Their Plugger unit worked fine and the soldiers reached the coordinates. > But they did not find the prisoners there. Instead, they came close to a > mortar attack. The human intelligence had failed, not the device. > > And even with the growing use of satellite navigation devices, there are > gaps. A prominent setback for the Army in the early days of the war was > the ambush of members of the 507th Maintenance Company near Nasiriya, > Iraq, in which eight soldiers were killed. A private captured in the > confrontation, Jessica D. Lynch, was later rescued, and five others > taken prisoner were found alive north of Baghdad on Sunday. > > The Nasiriya episode, which occurred while the soldiers were traveling > in a convoy of trucks and other vehicles, was initially attributed to > their having taken a wrong turn off a major highway. The Army has > refused to comment publicly on precise details of the incident, and more > recent accounts indicate that the convoy was ambushed after having > stopped to repair vehicles. > > But a technology expert with the American forces in the region and a > civilian expert on military G.P.S. both said it was unlikely in any case > that the captured unit had a G.P.S. device on board. > > While Plugger units are almost ubiquitous among front-line combat units, > they remain less common among units like maintenance companies, which > are not generally meant to engage the enemy. > > Even soldiers who have Pluggers are relying on devices that are in some > ways primitive compared with their civilian counterparts. It is a > curious position for the Pentagon, the driving force behind the creation > of the constellation of 24 G.P.S. satellites in the 1980's and 90's. > > The Plugger devices remain largely unchanged since their initial > deployment in 1994 (although their cost has fallen from about $2,000 > each to less than $1,000), and for many purposes, the relatively scant > information they provide is sufficient. Soldiers can specify their > destination, and the unit will tell them what direction to go. Using > encrypted satellite signals reserved for government use, they are > accurate to within roughly 10 yards, compared with 20 to 25 yards for > civilian devices. > > Built for resilience in combat, they are big (roughly the size of a > small shoebox), heavy (about 2.75 pounds) and have a small text-based > display incapable of showing maps or other information. In general, the > units, which are made by Rockwell Collins, display only location, > velocity (if the unit is moving) and time. > > Civilian G.P.S. devices like the NeverLost system in Hertz rental cars, > in contrast, are often able to display maps and other information. > > The advanced graphical FBCB2 system used in Army combat vehicles, in > contrast, allows commanders to electronically "see" broad swaths of a > battlefield. In the version of FBCB2 known as "blue-force tracker," > far-flung United States units not only receive their location > information from G.P.S. but also communicate with one another using > other classified satellite systems. Other versions of FBCB2 units > receive their location from G.P.S. but communicate with one another > using land-based radio. > > (In either case, the system is connected by cable to a Plugger, which > serves as the actual location-detection device. In fact, more than half > of the Pluggers in the Army are not used in a hand-held mode. Rather > they are used as "slave'' location-detection devices for other systems, > which include air-defense batteries in addition to FBCB2.) > > FBCB2, which has been in development since 1997, has been deployed in > practically every tank and Bradley fighting vehicle in the Fourth > Infantry Division, said Michael Lebrun, deputy director in the Army's > command, control, communication and computers office. Elements of the > Fourth Infantry, which in some ways is the most technically advanced of > the army's infantry divisions, are on the way to Iraq. > > The FBCB2 system displays the location of similarly equipped units in > the area as blue icons. When any of the units spot enemy forces, they > enter their location into the system. They are then displayed as red > icons, and that information is relayed to other FBCB2 trackers. > > Mr. Lebrun said that over the last seven or eight months, FBCB2 was > deployed to other army divisions, though generally company by company. A > tank company might include three platoons, each with four tanks. > > For foot soldiers without access to the FBCB2, however, satellite > navigation usually means getting their location from the Plugger and > then using a paper map to plot their location manually. > > That is why the Pentagon is ordering a new generation of hand-held > G.P.S. devices, to be known as DAGR, pronounced "Dagger," for Defense > Advanced G.P.S. Receiver. Rockwell Collins is competing with Raytheon > for the right to produce the new system, which is scheduled to reach > everyday soldiers next year. The Pentagon is to pick the winning company > in September. > > "Plugger is about 12 years old, and if you can make an analogy to the > commercial electronics marketplace, just think about your cordless phone > you had at home 10 years ago versus now," said Mark Youhanaie, > Raytheon's strategy director for G.P.S. products. "Now, we can make > these receivers more accurate. We can acquire the satellite signal more > quickly. It has higher jam immunity, and we can give you that all in a > package that is a quarter of the size of the old Plugger system." > > For now, it appears that the Rockwell Collins contender is a bit smaller > than Raytheon's, while Raytheon's boasts a bigger screen. Whichever > company wins, however, the Dagger will weigh only about a pound and will > be much smaller than the Plugger. Perhaps most important, the new > devices will allow soldiers to see not just lines of coordinate numbers, > but also a map that shows their location in relation to objects like > minefields, rivers and enemy positions. The units will also incorporate > graphical user interfaces. > > Drawing a comparison to generations of computer operating systems, Steve > Jones, the Rockwell Collins marketing manager for land navigation > products, said that "Plugger is DOS, and Dagger is Windows." > > By plugging the Dagger system into a military radio, soldiers may be > able to display their location on the screens of nearby Dagger units or > more advanced FBCB2 systems, Mr. Jones said. > > The Dagger devices, which are meant to initially cost about $2,000 each, > will be more advanced than the Plugger in other ways as well. While the > Plugger receives its encrypted signals at 1,575 megahertz, the band also > used for civilian G.P.S. devices, the Dagger will also be able to pick > up signals at the government-only 1,227-megahertz band, allowing for > additional accuracy. The 1,227 band is now used largely for military > aircraft, cruise missiles and other airborne systems, military officials > say. > > The new system will also track all 12 G.P.S. satellites in each > hemisphere at once. The old units can only track five satellites at > once, and signals from four satellites are required to establish a > three-dimensional position. In addition, current G.P.S. receivers are > somewhat vulnerable to enemy equipment that beams false G.P.S. signals > to indicate the wrong location, a technique known as spoofing. > > The Dagger is meant to include classified technology that will help the > device verify that the signal it is receiving is actually coming from a > United States G.P.S. satellite. > > It is still unclear just how many of the new devices will reach United > States soldiers. "The plan was to replace all of the Pluggers in one > year,'' said Mr. Brandt of the Marines, "and of course that depends on > how much money Congress decides to give us, which is never certain." > > But no matter how many are ultimately deployed, the new devices are > meant to give the soldiers perhaps the most precious commodity on the > modern battlefield besides life itself: information. > > "The key is greater situational awareness for our soldiers so we bring > them home alive," Colonel Harborth said. "That's it." > > > > Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 15:37:42 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Regan Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:37:42 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Happy Holiday Message-ID: <000f01c305c0$749cd200$b731b83f@fishkiller> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C30585.C6FF1160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just wanted to wish everyone a GOOD Friday... and now go and find all those Easter Eggs :) eat plenty of Chocolate = bunnies=20 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C30585.C6FF1160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Just wanted to wish everyone a GOOD=20 Friday...

and now go and find all those Easter=20 Eggs :) eat plenty of Chocolate bunnies

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C30585.C6FF1160-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 17:32:10 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Mark Tennis) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] no-find? Message-ID: <20030418173210.79030.qmail@web21501.mail.yahoo.com> --0-659221363-1050687130=:78066 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey everyone, I noticed that some people (don't want to name any names) are posting notes instead of no-finds or not even posting anything at all when not finding a cache. I was just curious as to why people do that because there is a reason we have the option of logging no-finds. I am sure this topic was probably discussed already in the forum, I guess I just wasn't paying attention. I feel that no-find postings will help both the owner of the cache and other cachers as well. For the owner, a no-find posting will alert the cache owner as to the cache possibly missing. This might lead to the owner checking up on the cache and doing some maintenence. For other cachers, it helps them in determining whether or not to try for a particular cache if a few no-finds have been posted. Also, I don't see how a no-find will hurt the person (stats wise). People should not be ashamed that they couldn't find a particular cache because it happens to everyone. I know that I have had the hardest times with some easy caches (like Fire Closure 2) and the easiest time with some more difficult caches (like No Breeze and Bush Wacked). Anybody else feel the same way I do? Or am I alone on this? Frieza(Bored right now at school on Good Friday) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-659221363-1050687130=:78066 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hey everyone,

I noticed that some people (don't want to name any names) are posting notes instead of no-finds or not even posting anything at all when not finding a cache. I was just curious as to why people do that because there is a reason we have the option of logging no-finds. I am sure this topic was probably discussed already in the forum, I guess I just wasn't paying attention.

I feel that no-find postings will help both the owner of the cache and other cachers as well. For the owner, a no-find posting will alert the cache owner as to the cache possibly missing. This might lead to the owner checking up on the cache and doing some maintenence. For other cachers, it helps them in determining whether or not to try for a particular cache if a few no-finds have been posted.

Also, I don't see how a no-find will hurt the person (stats wise). People should not be ashamed that they couldn't find a particular cache because it happens to everyone. I know that I have had the hardest times with some easy caches (like Fire Closure 2) and the easiest time with some more difficult caches (like No Breeze and Bush Wacked).

Anybody else feel the same way I do? Or am I alone on this?

Frieza

(Bored right now at school on Good Friday)

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. --0-659221363-1050687130=:78066-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 17:45:03 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Scott Wood) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:45:03 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] no-find? In-Reply-To: <20030418173210.79030.qmail@web21501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030418104416.021dc3a0@mail.myblueheaven.com> At 10:32 AM 4/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Anybody else feel the same way I do? Or am I alone on this? I agree. I always log my no finds. I do know that there are also people who delete their no find logs after they do find the cache later, but I see that as cheating the cache of it's actual history. Scott scott@myblueheaven.com www.myblueheaven.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 18:23:52 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Tim Giron) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:23:52 -0400 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] no-find? Message-ID: <20030418182351.LGWB25205.fed1mtao02.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> I agree... History is what it is. The six tries it took us to find the "Railway Museum" are best viewed as they played out over the course of several days. Likewise, "Chandler Mini". Our rule is simple: If we get out of the car, we're looking and that will either result in a find or a no-find... We only use notes for re-visits to a previously found cache (and logs on our own, of course). I have even replaced no-finds that a well-meaning cache owner removed when it was ultimately an error in the posting. The hour spent lurking around a neighborhood in the dark was more storied than the eventual find! I preserve all of our log entries locally so I can recover them when necessary. Tim Team AZFastFeet ============================================================ From: Scott Wood Date: 2003/04/18 Fri PM 01:45:03 EDT To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] no-find? At 10:32 AM 4/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Anybody else feel the same way I do? Or am I alone on this? I agree. I always log my no finds. I do know that there are also people who delete their no find logs after they do find the cache later, but I see that as cheating the cache of it's actual history. Scott scott@myblueheaven.com www.myblueheaven.com ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com ============================================================ From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 18:36:47 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Regan Smith) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:36:47 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] no-find? References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030418104416.021dc3a0@mail.myblueheaven.com> Message-ID: <000c01c305d9$78fb8ee0$7511b83f@fishkiller> WELL NOW I know a cacher that logs notes as well did you know that I as a cache owner, knew a good number of cachers that visited the cache none making a public log of any sorts except for one private message berating me and my lack of up keep, of a 3 day ago visited cache that wasn;t there then... did you know that a 2 star difficulty cache states that an average cacher will spend 30 minutes searching I rather leave a note as to my presence in the area than nothing, as far as a no find goes boils down to preference and semantics unless I can honestly say I did everything possible to locate a find then it goes short of a no find... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Wood" To: Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] no-find? > At 10:32 AM 4/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > >Anybody else feel the same way I do? Or am I alone on this? > > I agree. I always log my no finds. I do know that there are also people > who delete their no find logs after they do find the cache later, but I see > that as cheating the cache of it's actual history. > > > > Scott > > scott@myblueheaven.com > www.myblueheaven.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 18:38:17 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Scott Wood) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:38:17 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] no-find? In-Reply-To: <20030418182351.LGWB25205.fed1mtao02.cox.net@smtp.west.cox. net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030418113334.0189e940@mail.myblueheaven.com> At 02:23 PM 4/18/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I agree... History is what it is. The six tries it took us to find the >"Railway Museum" are best viewed as they played out over the course of >several days. Likewise, "Chandler Mini". Our rule is simple: If we get >out of the car, we're looking and that will either result in a find or a >no-find... We only use notes for re-visits to a previously found cache >(and logs on our own, of course). I have a rule of thumb. If for what ever reason I can't really look, like the park is to crowded, or something prevents us from getting in the general area I will post a note. If we actually look for the cache and can't find it we post a no find. This goes for caches that are no longer there but we still looked because of older data. I have had a cache find log deleted by the cache owner before, and while that bugged me a little, I had a cache owner delete one of my no find logs, along with about a half dozen other no find logs, and that one really upset me. The cache was later found with coordinates about 150 feet off, and the mail I got from the cache owner led me to think that my no find log somehow detracted from their cache. >I have even replaced no-finds that a well-meaning cache owner removed when >it was ultimately an error in the posting. The hour spent lurking around >a neighborhood in the dark was more storied than the eventual find! > >I preserve all of our log entries locally so I can recover them when >necessary. > >Tim >Team AZFastFeet > >============================================================ >From: Scott Wood >Date: 2003/04/18 Fri PM 01:45:03 EDT >To: listserv@azgeocaching.com >Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] no-find? > >At 10:32 AM 4/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > >Anybody else feel the same way I do? Or am I alone on this? > >I agree. I always log my no finds. I do know that there are also people >who delete their no find logs after they do find the cache later, but I see >that as cheating the cache of it's actual history. > > > >Scott > >scott@myblueheaven.com >www.myblueheaven.com > >____________________________________________________________ >Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com >To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: >http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > >Arizona's Geocaching Resource >http://www.azgeocaching.com >============================================================ > > >____________________________________________________________ >Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com >To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: >http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > >Arizona's Geocaching Resource >http://www.azgeocaching.com Scott scott@myblueheaven.com www.myblueheaven.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 19:44:42 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (listserv@azgeocaching.com) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 12:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Logging no-finds when I made a thorough, unsuccessful search attempt In-Reply-To: <200304181840.LAA12099@ns2.sequoia.net> Message-ID: <20030418194442.47628.qmail@web21109.mail.yahoo.com> --0-1794435259-1050695082=:47477 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Scott Wood (a.k.a. MyBlueHeaven) wrote: I agree. I always log my no finds. I do know that there are also people who delete their no find logs after they do find the cache later, but I see that as cheating the cache of it's actual history. I usually log no-finds, but not all the time. If I made a serious effort to find the cache and the cache has not been archived or suspended, then I will log a no-find. However, if I search for only a few minutes because I don't have much time or there are too many people at an urban cache site, and don't perform what I feel is a thorough search, then I won't log the no-find. Sometimes I include a note in this instance. My record of no-finds provides me with a list of caches that I need to return to find, because I don't like to leave any caches unfound close to my home. If I find a cache after recording a no-find, then I will delete the previous no-find but include excerpts from that entry in my current found log entry. Therefore, the cache is no longer listed among my unfound caches (because it now has been found), but the most important part of the historical information is preserved. Ken (a.k.a. Highpointer) --0-1794435259-1050695082=:47477 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Scott Wood (a.k.a. MyBlueHeaven) wrote:

I agree. I always log my no finds. I do know that there are also people
who delete their no find logs after they do find the cache later, but I see
that as cheating the cache of it's actual history.

I usually log no-finds, but not all the time. If I made a serious effort to find the cache and the cache has not been archived or suspended, then I will log a no-find. However, if I search for only a few minutes because I don't have much time or there are too many people at an urban cache site, and don't perform what I feel is a thorough search, then I won't log the no-find. Sometimes I include a note in this instance.

My record of no-finds provides me with a list of caches that I need to return to find, because I don't like to leave any caches unfound close to my home. If I find a cache after recording a no-find, then I will delete the previous no-find but include excerpts from that entry in my current found log entry. Therefore, the cache is no longer listed among my unfound caches (because it now has been found), but the most important part of the historical information is preserved.

Ken (a.k.a. Highpointer)

--0-1794435259-1050695082=:47477-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 20:26:59 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Pat Thompson) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:26:59 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. Message-ID: <3EA05F93.3060201@cox.net> We have had the experience of logging one "No Find". We posted the "No Find" on the internet log site and then advised the cache owner by e-mail of some specific facts regarding our search, so that he/she could determine whether the cache was actually missing or we had just missed finding it. The cache owner promptly visited the site and determined that the cache was missing. He/she responsibly alerted the geocaching community and disabled the cache until he was able to replace it, which he did in a very short period of time. In my view there are two kinds of "No Finds": 1.The cache actually exists and isn't found 2.The cache has been stolen, lost etc. and no amount of hunting is going to find it. In the case of number 2., reporting this kind of "No Find" actually renders a service to the geocaching community for reasons that I assume are obvious. Therefore, I would actually classify this type of "No Find" as a pseudo "No Find" in the sense that there was nothing to find in the first place. I find that I am a little uncomfortable recording a "No Find" for a cache that is impossible to find because it doesn't exist. Once it has been verified that the cache doesn't exist, then it is my view that the person who reported it should be entitled to delete the "No Find" from his/her log. However, I also believe that there is some historical and practical value attached to maintaining an accurate search log. For that reason, the log history would record that on a particular date the cache was found to be missing and subsequently disabled and/or archived or replaced. This would only occur, if the owner verified that the cache was actually missing. I recognize that these are really minor points on the relative scale of priority issues, but maybe they are worth considering in the interest of establishing that there is a real distinction between the two types of "No Finds" cited above. On the other hand, maybe everybody is happy with the current protocol and feels that, in this case, making this distinction with a difference would serve no useful purpose. Either way, we have enjoyed geocaching and thank all those in the geocaching community who make possible such an enjoyable pastime. Team Seeking Pat & Jan Thompson Team Seeking Pat Thompson From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 20:54:58 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (RAND HARDIN) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 13:54:58 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Logging no-finds Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C305B2.195ABB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I pretty much do the same as Highpointer. I will log a "note" if I feel = the cache is missing (with an explanation that I will change it to a "no-= find" if proved otherwise.) I will also add "notes" if I started to look= for a cache but was interrupted and couldn't finish giving the search a = fair chance. I will log a "no-find" if I visit a cache site and couldn't= locate the cache. Once I find the cache I will edit the "note" or "no-f= ind" entry to a "Found" - but maintain the date and log (logs) of the pre= vious entry (entries) below my "found" log. (Therefore, all of my visits= are listed together - paragraphed separately - with dates, times and I e= ven add the little colored faces next to the logs indicating my feelings = for the entry) I only maintain the purple "no-find" faces for reference on "my cache pag= e" under "logged caches" so I know which caches I need to return to. Rand (RandMan) =20 ----- Original Message ----- From: ken@highpointer.com Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 12:48 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Logging no-finds when I made a thorough, unsucce= ssful search attempt I usually log no-finds, but not all the time. If I made a serious effort= to find the cache and the cache has not been archived or suspended, then= I will log a no-find. However, if I search for only a few minutes becau= se I don't have much time or there are too many people at an urban cache = site, and don't perform what I feel is a thorough search, then I won't lo= g the no-find. Sometimes I include a note in this instance. =20 My record of no-finds provides me with a list of caches that I need to re= turn to find, because I don't like to leave any caches unfound close to m= y home. If I find a cache after recording a no-find, then I will delete = the previous no-find but include excerpts from that entry in my current f= ound log entry. Therefore, the cache is no longer listed among my unfoun= d caches (because it now has been found), but the most important part of = the historical information is preserved. Ken (a.k.a. Highpointer) ------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C305B2.195ABB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I pretty much = do the same as Highpointer. I will log a "note" if= I feel the cache is missing (with an explanation that I will change it t= o a "no-find" if proved otherwise.) I will also add "notes" if I st= arted to look for a cache but was interrupted and couldn't finish giving = the search a fair chance. I will log a "no-find" if I visit a cache= site and couldn't locate the cache. Once I find the cache I w= ill edit the "note" or "no-find" entry to a "Found" - but maint= ain the date and log (logs) of the previous entry (entries) below my= "found" log. (Therefore, all of my visits are listed together= - paragraphed separately - with dates, times and I even add th= e little colored faces next to the logs indicating my feelings for the en= try)

I only maintain the purple "n= o-find" faces for reference on "my cache page" under "= logged caches" so I know which caches I need to return = to.

Rand (RandMan)

&n= bsp;

----- Original Message -----

From: ken@hi= ghpointer.com

Sent: Friday, = April 18, 2003 12:48 PM

To: = listserv@azgeocaching.com

Subjec= t: [Az-Geocaching] Logging no-finds when I made a thorough, unsuccess= ful search attempt

I usually log no-finds, b= ut not all the time. If I made a serious effort to find the cache a= nd the cache has not been archived or suspended, then I will log a no-fin= d. However, if I search for only a few minutes because I don't have= much time or there are too many people at an urban cache site, and don't= perform what I feel is a thorough search, then I won't log the no-find.&= nbsp; Sometimes I include a note in this instance.

= My record of no-finds provides me with a list of caches that I need to re= turn to find, because I don't like to leave any caches unfound close to m= y home. If I find a cache after recording a no-find, then I will de= lete the previous no-find but include excerpts from that entry in my curr= ent found log entry. Therefore, the cache is no longer listed among= my unfound caches (because it now has been found), but the most importan= t part of the historical information is preserved.

Ken (a.k.a. Highpointer= )

------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C305B2.195ABB40-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Fri Apr 18 21:36:09 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Aus Dem Kasten) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:36:09 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. In-Reply-To: <3EA05F93.3060201@cox.net> Message-ID: <000c01c305f2$86b6fe70$1f14a8c0@jon> As a cache owner I just like to be informed if someone has made an effort to find the cache and did not succeed. Team Seeking posted a "no-find" on one of our caches, and when I checked on it, the container was in fact missing. I found out later that another team had tried to locate it, but never logged the "no-find" or posted a note. This was a bit frustrating. If this team had taken the time to do so, Team Seeking wouldn't have wasted time trying to locate something that was not there. If teams, for some reason, would rather post a note than log a "no-find", I'm all for it. It really does not bother me if it is logged as a "no-find" or posted as a note. As long as the cache owner and caching community are made aware. Aus Dem Kasten -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Pat Thompson Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 1:27 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. We have had the experience of logging one "No Find". We posted the "No Find" on the internet log site and then advised the cache owner by e-mail of some specific facts regarding our search, so that he/she could determine whether the cache was actually missing or we had just missed finding it. The cache owner promptly visited the site and determined that the cache was missing. He/she responsibly alerted the geocaching community and disabled the cache until he was able to replace it, which he did in a very short period of time. In my view there are two kinds of "No Finds": 1.The cache actually exists and isn't found 2.The cache has been stolen, lost etc. and no amount of hunting is going to find it. In the case of number 2., reporting this kind of "No Find" actually renders a service to the geocaching community for reasons that I assume are obvious. Therefore, I would actually classify this type of "No Find" as a pseudo "No Find" in the sense that there was nothing to find in the first place. I find that I am a little uncomfortable recording a "No Find" for a cache that is impossible to find because it doesn't exist. Once it has been verified that the cache doesn't exist, then it is my view that the person who reported it should be entitled to delete the "No Find" from his/her log. However, I also believe that there is some historical and practical value attached to maintaining an accurate search log. For that reason, the log history would record that on a particular date the cache was found to be missing and subsequently disabled and/or archived or replaced. This would only occur, if the owner verified that the cache was actually missing. I recognize that these are really minor points on the relative scale of priority issues, but maybe they are worth considering in the interest of establishing that there is a real distinction between the two types of "No Finds" cited above. On the other hand, maybe everybody is happy with the current protocol and feels that, in this case, making this distinction with a difference would serve no useful purpose. Either way, we have enjoyed geocaching and thank all those in the geocaching community who make possible such an enjoyable pastime. Team Seeking Pat & Jan Thompson Team Seeking Pat Thompson ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Sat Apr 19 00:07:47 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (gale and mike) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:07:47 +0000 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] no-find? Message-ID:

You wrote:

I noticed that some people (don't want to name any names) are posting notes instead of no-finds or not even posting anything at all when not finding a cache. I was just curious as to why people do that because there is a reason we have the option of logging no-finds. Also, I don't see how a no-find will hurt the person (stats wise). People should not be ashamed that they couldn't find a particular cache because it happens to everyone.

****

My response:

Go ahead and names names...beginning with me. I freely admit my guilt here. When we first started geocaching, we were at a low point in our lives after three hellish years of personal tragedies. Quite frankly, I did not want to post a no-find. I felt like a loser for doing so. (Low point in our lives remember.) It has nothing to do with team stats. We actually don't look at them except once or twice a month out of curiosity. I also don't like to see the harshness of that bright purple face on my cache page. I have far too many of them in my benchmark listing. Later, it just became a habit. I do check the page of the cache we couldn't find and post a note or let the owner know if no one logs it later or they log a no-find. I'll try to do better, but it is hard to break a habit. I can only think of 4 caches we currently cannot find, and one of them we didn't even get out of the car for.

If this posts twice, I'm sorry. I had a delivery failure for the listserv. I'm not sure what happened or if this was the message that didn't get delivered.

Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. From listserv@azgeocaching.com Sat Apr 19 03:34:18 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Marc) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:34:18 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. References: <000c01c305f2$86b6fe70$1f14a8c0@jon> Message-ID: <3EA0C3BA.3080304@uccinc.net> Some cachers, like us, have had the luxury of mentors to help us get to know the ropes. I know from e-mails and logs that I have had on my caches that not all do. I think we have all been good about educating them on what to do, but if they don't belong to this forum or make contact with other cachers, they simply will not know. Once I had a cacher click the "archive this cache" cause they could not find it. As it turned out, they had no idea what that really meant. After I e-mailed them back asking they why, they realized the cache was really there and they just missed it, and now know how to properly log. As a cache owner, I have made it a point to respond back to each e-mail or log entry that needs attention. I figure if they are courteous enough to contact me, I should help support and encourage them to continue doing it for others. I have found it very helpful to know when a problem may exist. I can then go check on my cache and make sure all is well and let them know the status. If some contact is not made, then how can we expect cache owners to keep there caches in good shape. As far as cachers that don't log a note, no find, or contact the cache owner, on caches that they don't think they spend enough time doing, they are not allowing the cache owner the knowledge that someone is interested in finding their cache. Some cachers do and I think that is great! I make sure that the cache is there and in good shape for them. I think this helps increase the over all caching experience for all. Tamo's Clan'Destiny Aus Dem Kasten wrote: > As a cache owner I just like to be informed if someone has made >an effort to find the cache and did not succeed. > Team Seeking posted a "no-find" on one of our caches, and when I >checked on it, the container was in fact missing. I found out later >that another team had tried to locate it, but never logged the "no-find" >or posted a note. This was a bit frustrating. If this team had taken >the time to do so, Team Seeking wouldn't have wasted time trying to >locate something that was not there. > If teams, for some reason, would rather post a note than log a >"no-find", I'm all for it. It really does not bother me if it is logged >as a "no-find" or posted as a note. As long as the cache owner and >caching community are made aware. > >Aus Dem Kasten > >-----Original Message----- >From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com >[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Pat >Thompson >Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 1:27 PM >To: listserv@azgeocaching.com >Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. > >We have had the experience of logging one "No Find". We posted the "No >Find" on the internet log site and then advised the cache owner by >e-mail of some specific facts regarding our search, so that he/she could > >determine whether the cache was actually missing or we had just missed >finding it. The cache owner promptly visited the site and determined >that the cache was missing. He/she responsibly alerted the geocaching >community and disabled the cache until he was able to replace it, which >he did in a very short period of time. > >In my view there are two kinds of "No Finds": 1.The cache actually >exists and isn't found 2.The cache has been stolen, lost etc. and no >amount of hunting is going to find it. > >In the case of number 2., reporting this kind of "No Find" actually >renders a service to the geocaching community for reasons that I assume >are obvious. Therefore, I would actually classify this type of "No Find" > >as a pseudo "No Find" in the sense that there was nothing to find in the > >first place. I find that I am a little uncomfortable recording a "No >Find" for a cache that is impossible to find because it doesn't exist. >Once it has been verified that the cache doesn't exist, then it is my >view that the person who reported it should be entitled to delete the >"No Find" from his/her log. > >However, I also believe that there is some historical and practical >value attached to maintaining an accurate search log. For that reason, >the log history would record that on a particular date the cache was >found to be missing and subsequently disabled and/or archived or >replaced. This would only occur, if the owner verified that the cache >was actually missing. > >I recognize that these are really minor points on the relative scale of >priority issues, but maybe they are worth considering in the interest of > >establishing that there is a real distinction between the two types of >"No Finds" cited above. On the other hand, maybe everybody is happy with > >the current protocol and feels that, in this case, making this >distinction with a difference would serve no useful purpose. > >Either way, we have enjoyed geocaching and thank all those in the >geocaching community who make possible such an enjoyable pastime. > >Team Seeking >Pat & Jan Thompson > > > > > > > > >Team Seeking >Pat Thompson > > >____________________________________________________________ >Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com >To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: >http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > >Arizona's Geocaching Resource >http://www.azgeocaching.com > > >____________________________________________________________ >Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com >To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: >http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > >Arizona's Geocaching Resource >http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > From listserv@azgeocaching.com Sat Apr 19 07:29:43 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Aus Dem Kasten) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 00:29:43 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. In-Reply-To: <3EA0C3BA.3080304@uccinc.net> Message-ID: <000a01c30645$754a2790$6501a8c0@insomnia> This is a good point. Had we not had a mentor (Tamo) introduce us to geocaching, I can not say that we would have immediately recognized the importance of communication in this sport. As I stated earlier, I believe it is critical that people notify the cache owner if they made an honest effort to locate a cache unsuccessfully. Whether, it is logged as a "no-find", or just a note, communicating this can only improve the awareness of the status of a cache. I know that I had stated that if I were to drive up to a cache location and quickly conclude that searching for the cache would be useless based on how populated the area was (or other reasons), that it would be pointless for us to log or make a note that we did not find the cache. Why log "We drove up to the cache site but there were too many people there. We could not see the cache from the car, so we moved on"? This type of log seemed pointless to me. I must retract that statement because, as Tamo stated, not logging this type of experience does in fact disallow the cache owner the knowledge that someone is interested in finding their cache. A perfect example of this, for us, was when Highpointer made a note on one of our caches stating that he did not find the cache because the site was too heavily populated at the time and was in a spot that would not allow him to be inconspicuous. We enjoyed just knowing that another team was interested in locating our cache, and have also been reconsidering the exact location based on that note. It is a courtesy that Tamo's Clan'Destiny, Highpointer and other teams have performed that we really appreciate; a courtesy that we will make an effort to perform in the future. Aus Dem Kasten -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Marc Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 8:34 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. Some cachers, like us, have had the luxury of mentors to help us get to know the ropes. I know from e-mails and logs that I have had on my caches that not all do. I think we have all been good about educating them on what to do, but if they don't belong to this forum or make contact with other cachers, they simply will not know. Once I had a cacher click the "archive this cache" cause they could not find it. As it turned out, they had no idea what that really meant. After I e-mailed them back asking they why, they realized the cache was really there and they just missed it, and now know how to properly log. As a cache owner, I have made it a point to respond back to each e-mail or log entry that needs attention. I figure if they are courteous enough to contact me, I should help support and encourage them to continue doing it for others. I have found it very helpful to know when a problem may exist. I can then go check on my cache and make sure all is well and let them know the status. If some contact is not made, then how can we expect cache owners to keep there caches in good shape. As far as cachers that don't log a note, no find, or contact the cache owner, on caches that they don't think they spend enough time doing, they are not allowing the cache owner the knowledge that someone is interested in finding their cache. Some cachers do and I think that is great! I make sure that the cache is there and in good shape for them. I think this helps increase the over all caching experience for all. Tamo's Clan'Destiny Aus Dem Kasten wrote: > As a cache owner I just like to be informed if someone has made >an effort to find the cache and did not succeed. > Team Seeking posted a "no-find" on one of our caches, and when I >checked on it, the container was in fact missing. I found out later >that another team had tried to locate it, but never logged the "no-find" >or posted a note. This was a bit frustrating. If this team had taken >the time to do so, Team Seeking wouldn't have wasted time trying to >locate something that was not there. > If teams, for some reason, would rather post a note than log a >"no-find", I'm all for it. It really does not bother me if it is logged >as a "no-find" or posted as a note. As long as the cache owner and >caching community are made aware. > >Aus Dem Kasten > >-----Original Message----- >From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com >[mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of Pat >Thompson >Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 1:27 PM >To: listserv@azgeocaching.com >Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. > >We have had the experience of logging one "No Find". We posted the "No >Find" on the internet log site and then advised the cache owner by >e-mail of some specific facts regarding our search, so that he/she could > >determine whether the cache was actually missing or we had just missed >finding it. The cache owner promptly visited the site and determined >that the cache was missing. He/she responsibly alerted the geocaching >community and disabled the cache until he was able to replace it, which >he did in a very short period of time. > >In my view there are two kinds of "No Finds": 1.The cache actually >exists and isn't found 2.The cache has been stolen, lost etc. and no >amount of hunting is going to find it. > >In the case of number 2., reporting this kind of "No Find" actually >renders a service to the geocaching community for reasons that I assume >are obvious. Therefore, I would actually classify this type of "No Find" > >as a pseudo "No Find" in the sense that there was nothing to find in the > >first place. I find that I am a little uncomfortable recording a "No >Find" for a cache that is impossible to find because it doesn't exist. >Once it has been verified that the cache doesn't exist, then it is my >view that the person who reported it should be entitled to delete the >"No Find" from his/her log. > >However, I also believe that there is some historical and practical >value attached to maintaining an accurate search log. For that reason, >the log history would record that on a particular date the cache was >found to be missing and subsequently disabled and/or archived or >replaced. This would only occur, if the owner verified that the cache >was actually missing. > >I recognize that these are really minor points on the relative scale of >priority issues, but maybe they are worth considering in the interest of > >establishing that there is a real distinction between the two types of >"No Finds" cited above. On the other hand, maybe everybody is happy with > >the current protocol and feels that, in this case, making this >distinction with a difference would serve no useful purpose. > >Either way, we have enjoyed geocaching and thank all those in the >geocaching community who make possible such an enjoyable pastime. > >Team Seeking >Pat & Jan Thompson > > > > > > > > >Team Seeking >Pat Thompson > > >____________________________________________________________ >Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com >To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: >http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > >Arizona's Geocaching Resource >http://www.azgeocaching.com > > >____________________________________________________________ >Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com >To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: >http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > >Arizona's Geocaching Resource >http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Sat Apr 19 14:11:25 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (xWaterLilyx) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 07:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. In-Reply-To: <000a01c30645$754a2790$6501a8c0@insomnia> Message-ID: <20030419141125.29762.qmail@web14807.mail.yahoo.com> -- Aus Dem Kasten wrote: > A perfect example of this, for us, was when > Highpointer made a note on one of our caches stating that he did not find the cache because the > site was too heavily populated at the time and was > in a spot that would not allow him to be inconspicuous. We enjoyed just knowing that another > team was interested in locating our cache, and have > also been reconsidering the exact location based on that note. It is a courtesy that Tamo's Clan'Destiny, Highpointer and other teams have performed that we really appreciate; a courtesy that we will make an effort to perform in the future. > > Aus Dem Kasten --------------------------------------------------- When I first started Geocaching I didn't post notes if I couldn't find the cache. I was a 'newbie' and figured it had to be there and since I still wasn't sure what I was looking for I wasn't going to say anything. I have tried as I've gotten more finds under my belt to post notes if I went to the cache but for some reason couldn't find it. I'll post a note if I feel I didn't give it my all; either too many people, GPS problems, or even the first time I've tried it. Since I generally attempt a cache with nothing more then coords and the sometimes the printed sheet without logs on them the first time, I figure it's note worthy not log worthy. It at least lets the owner know I'm looking and etc. The second attempt is usually with any clues decoded and having gone back to read all the logs (which I don't read for my first attempt, usually). At this point, if I get out and attempt to look I'm probably going to post it as a "No Find" then. However, when I finally locate it and turn it into a "Found" I go back and EDIT my "No Find", that way like somebody said previously all my logs are together and you can get my whole story in one shot, and it 'fixes' my no find log. I'm not always so great at posting notes that all I did was drive up to see a cache but there were to many people or etc, but I might start now. Simply because it might help others coming after me to know to attempt the cache on a different day or different time so they can avoid the crowd I may have run into. ===== xWaterLilyx & RTF Team H20 Phoenix, AZ (Ahwatukee) Geocaching Site: http://www.geocities.com/xwaterlilyxrtf __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Sat Apr 19 17:27:24 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Scott Wood) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 10:27:24 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re:No finds. In-Reply-To: <20030419141125.29762.qmail@web14807.mail.yahoo.com> References: <000a01c30645$754a2790$6501a8c0@insomnia> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030419102512.025a7ae8@mail.myblueheaven.com> At 07:11 AM 4/19/2003 -0700, you wrote: >somebody said previously all my logs are together and >you can get my whole story in one shot, and it 'fixes' >my no find log. This is something that I have never actually understood. Why is there a need to "fix" a no find log? That attempted find of a cache is a very valid part of that caches history. Just as later finding it. The logs should not be together, they should reflect the actual dates that you either could not find the cache, and the actual date that you returned and did find it. I have always been opposed to revisionist history in real life, I guess I am in geocaching too. :-) Scott scott@myblueheaven.com www.myblueheaven.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Sat Apr 19 23:50:05 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Eric Quinn) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 16:50:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Altoids Mini Tins Message-ID: <20030419235005.27662.qmail@web40608.mail.yahoo.com> Has anyone used the tins that the Altoids disolving strips come in? Do they hold up as well as the regular ones? Eric Team Dragon __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Sun Apr 20 02:46:37 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (RAND HARDIN) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 19:46:37 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Altoids Mini Tins Message-ID: ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C306AC.63E501C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric, I have been to a couple caches where the small 1/4'' x 1'' x 1 1/2'' Alto= ids tins have been used. I visited a cache last week that had one. They= seem to work well as long as they're hidden in an area where water can't= get to them. Eric, when are you going to repair Arrowhead Menace and remove it from th= e archive list? It's a great cache! and a good place for leaving/trading= travel bugs. Rand (RandMan) ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Quinn Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 4:53 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Altoids Mini Tins Has anyone used the tins that the Altoids disolving strips come in? Do they hold up as well as the regular ones? Eric Team Dragon ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C306AC.63E501C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eric,

From: Brian Cluff

Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 10= :05 AM

To: listserv@azgeocac= hing.com

Subject: Re: [Az-Ge= ocaching] Cache on Pima Campus

That sounds like a = very nice and understanding officer considering that
he briefly had t= he crap scared out of him.
Which ever cache it is, it's nice to have l= evel headed people out there.

Brian Cluff
Team Snaptek

S= cott Wood wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I returned from= a camping trip this weekend to find that my What A
> Cache had be= en archived by the geocaching.com admins because it was
> found by= the Pima Comm. College Police and was in their property
> room.&n= bsp; I was a little confused about this since What A Cache is not on
= > PCC property. I just heard back from the guy over at the PCC p= olice
> department and I am now pretty sure that this was NOT my W= hat A Cache,
> but some other cache out there. The following= is the message that I
> recieved, I hope that it will narrow down= which cache this is so that
> the owner can go claim it.
><= BR>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>=
> Hi Scott,
> Yesterday, a biology instructor and her class = found the cache and
> thought it may have been a pipe bomb.
>= ; I responded and found the cache underneath a tree mostly covered.
&= gt; After careful moving of the debris, we realized what we were dealing =
> with. Still, we were not 100% sure what we were opening was safe= . I
> would rather not be placed in that position if I don't have = to. The
> Cache was not found on A mountain but 200 yards northeas= t of the Pima
> college baseball field- in a not so public college= desert.
> I placed the Cache in our found property room here at pi= ma college
> west campus police office. It will be kept here for o= ne month than
> moved to our district office for two more months. = Please call me at
> 206-2700 Mon-thu until 4:00 pm.
> I have= no problem you placing your cache on our property if you can
> so= mehow make the cache less menacing looking.
> Thanks for understand= ing,
> Officer Roger Early
> West Campus Liaison.
>
= > --------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------
>
>
>
> Scott
>=
> scott@myblueheaven.com
> www.myblueheaven.com
>
&= gt; ____________________________________________________________
> = Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com
> To edit your= setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
> http://listserv.azgeoca= ching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>
> Arizona's Geocac= hing Resource
> http://www.azgeocaching.com

________= ____________________________________________________
Az-Geocaching mai= ling list listserv@azgeocaching.com
To edit your setting, subscribe or= unsubscribe visit:
http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/= az-geocaching

Arizona's Geocaching Resource
http://www.azgeocac= hing.com
------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C30E38.CE63A4A0-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Tue Apr 29 17:45:26 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Scott Wood) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 10:45:26 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030429104356.01939958@mail.myblueheaven.com> --=====================_7458044==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:19 AM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >I'm not familiar with the area, but it shouldn't be too difficult doing a >search of the caches that were placed on the campus. I'm wondering why >geocaching.com archived Scott's cache! Is it possible Scott's cache was >the closest to where this cache was found - and possibly this found cache >is not even one of our caches, but belongs to a different caching group? There are a few puzzle caches out in that general area, and because of that they would not show up by just searching for the coordinates. As for why they archived mine, I think it is because mine is within a few miles and it is made out of PVC/ABS pipe. I just got the following from the cop that was involved in all this. -------------------------------------- Hey Scott, I appreciate your help. By the way, this geocaching thing is cool. I might have to go out and buy a good GPS soon. Roger ---------------------------------------- Scott scott@myblueheaven.com www.myblueheaven.com --=====================_7458044==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 10:19 AM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote:

I'm not familiar with the area, but it shouldn't be too difficult doing a search of the caches that were placed on the campus. I'm wondering why geocaching.com archived Scott's cache! Is it possible Scott's cache was the closest to where this cache was found - and possibly this found cache is not even one of our caches, but belongs to a different caching group?

There are a few puzzle caches out in that general area, and because of that they would not show up by just searching for the coordinates. As for why they archived mine, I think it is because mine is within a few miles and it is made out of PVC/ABS pipe. I just got the following from the cop that was involved in all this.

--------------------------------------

Hey Scott,
I appreciate your help. By the way, this geocaching thing is cool. I might have to go out and buy a good GPS soon.
Roger

----------------------------------------

Scott

scott@myblueheaven.com

www.myblueheaven.com

--=====================_7458044==_.ALT-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Tue Apr 29 21:31:38 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Trisha) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:31:38 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Fire restrictions Message-ID: <20030429143140.18809.h018.c000.wm@mail.brasher.com.criticalpath.net> All I have heard right now on the news is starting May 7, it will be a "NO Fires NO Campfires NO smoking" restrictions from Yuma on up the River area. Our Forest Service guy spoke with us on Sat at training (we had camp evacuation training for the 20 plus summer camps in the urban/forest interface area) and said that no date is set YET to start restrictions. They try everything else before actual closures, but everybody is going to be extra careful. He said the New Mexico is BONE dry (worse than us, apparently) and that about a week after they start having fires, look out around here. Sunday we had more evac training, as our Jeep Posse is helping to train some of the other volunteer groups. Channel 2 (NBC) from Flagstaff was there and I was actually on the 10 pm News on Sunday night! (Sitting in the command/communication vehicle) If I hear anything I will post. Trisha "Lightning" Prescott On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:19:16 -0700, "Jerry Nelson" wrote: � � I believe this is only near the Colorado River on Arizona's western border. � � � ----- Original Message ----- From: gale and mike To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 10:55 PM Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Fire restrictions I just heard on the news that fire restrictions will begin on BLM lands May 5th. Have you heard anything new on the fire dangers Trisha? Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes� On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:"Something hidden.� Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --� "Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!" � Rudyard Kipling�,�� The Explorer� 1898 MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Tue Apr 29 21:58:03 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Jim Scotti) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 14:58:03 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030429091434.0196fed8@mail.myblueheaven.com> Message-ID: Hey Scott, That sounds like My Own Private Arizona, both in location and description. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=45561 You should contact Rob of Wily Javelina. I think he lives closer to the cache than the Pima CC Baseball field is to the cache..... Sounds like you might have a new geocacher too, by your later message with the Pima CC officer.... Jim. On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Scott Wood wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I returned from a camping trip this weekend to find that my What A Cache > had been archived by the geocaching.com admins because it was found by the > Pima Comm. College Police and was in their property room. I was a little > confused about this since What A Cache is not on PCC property. I just > heard back from the guy over at the PCC police department and I am now > pretty sure that this was NOT my What A Cache, but some other cache out > there. The following is the message that I recieved, I hope that it will > narrow down which cache this is so that the owner can go claim it. > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Hi Scott, > Yesterday, a biology instructor and her class found the cache and thought > it may have been a pipe bomb. > I responded and found the cache underneath a tree mostly covered. After > careful moving of the debris, we realized what we were dealing with. Still, > we were not 100% sure what we were opening was safe. I would rather not be > placed in that position if I don't have to. The Cache was not found on A > mountain but 200 yards northeast of the Pima college baseball field- in a > not so public college desert. > I placed the Cache in our found property room here at pima college west > campus police office. It will be kept here for one month than moved to our > district office for two more months. Please call me at 206-2700 Mon-thu > until 4:00 pm. > I have no problem you placing your cache on our property if you can somehow > make the cache less menacing looking. > Thanks for understanding, > Officer Roger Early > West Campus Liaison. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Scott > > scott@myblueheaven.com > www.myblueheaven.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com > Jim Scotti Lunar & Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 USA http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/ From listserv@azgeocaching.com Tue Apr 29 22:05:28 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Scott Wood) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:05:28 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030429091434.0196fed8@mail.myblueheaven.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030429150449.018fec70@mail.myblueheaven.com> At 02:58 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Hey Scott, > That sounds like My Own Private Arizona, both in location and description. >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=45561 > > You should contact Rob of Wily Javelina. I think he lives closer to the >cache than the Pima CC Baseball field is to the cache..... There is one other cache of his that the final location is in that general area. I don't recall Private Arizona being in a PVC/ABS setup. I have sent him an email about it but have yet to hear back from him. I wasn't sure if he was on this list or not. Scott scott@myblueheaven.com www.myblueheaven.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Tue Apr 29 22:11:48 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Jim Scotti) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:11:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20030429150449.018fec70@mail.myblueheaven.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I know which one you are thinking of (I think) and it's probably a kilometer away from PCC while My Own Private Arizona is just north of the Pima CC baseball field. It wasn't clear to me whose property that was, though I am not surprised that it is PCC. I don't know if Rob subscribes to this list either. I've never seen him post to it if he lurks on it. Did you get What A Cache restored? Jim. On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Scott Wood wrote: > At 02:58 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: > > >Hey Scott, > > That sounds like My Own Private Arizona, both in location and description. > >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=45561 > > > > You should contact Rob of Wily Javelina. I think he lives closer to the > >cache than the Pima CC Baseball field is to the cache..... > > There is one other cache of his that the final location is in that general > area. I don't recall Private Arizona being in a PVC/ABS setup. I have sent > him an email about it but have yet to hear back from him. I wasn't sure if > he was on this list or not. > > > > Scott > > scott@myblueheaven.com > www.myblueheaven.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com > Jim Scotti Lunar & Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 USA http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/ From listserv@azgeocaching.com Tue Apr 29 22:29:03 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Donn Sanford) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:29:03 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Fire restrictions In-Reply-To: <20030429143140.18809.h018.c000.wm@mail.brasher.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: >>>>>Sunday we had more evac training, as our Jeep Posse is helping to train some of the other volunteer groups.>>>> This sounds interesting -- is there a website explaining the Jeep Posse and what you do? Donn Tucson -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of Trisha Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:32 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Fire restrictions All I have heard right now on the news is starting May 7, it will be a "NO Fires NO Campfires NO smoking" restrictions from Yuma on up the River area. Our Forest Service guy spoke with us on Sat at training (we had camp evacuation training for the 20 plus summer camps in the urban/forest interface area) and said that no date is set YET to start restrictions. They try everything else before actual closures, but everybody is going to be extra careful. He said the New Mexico is BONE dry (worse than us, apparently) and that about a week after they start having fires, look out around here. Sunday we had more evac training, as our Jeep Posse is helping to train some of the other volunteer groups. Channel 2 (NBC) from Flagstaff was there and I was actually on the 10 pm News on Sunday night! (Sitting in the command/communication vehicle) If I hear anything I will post. Trisha "Lightning" Prescott On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:19:16 -0700, "Jerry Nelson" wrote: � � I believe this is only near the Colorado River on Arizona's western border. � � � ----- Original Message ----- From: gale and mike To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 10:55 PM Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Fire restrictions I just heard on the news that fire restrictions will begin on BLM lands May 5th. Have you heard anything new on the fire dangers Trisha? Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes� On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:"Something hidden.� Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --� "Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!" � Rudyard Kipling�,�� The Explorer� 1898 MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Tue Apr 29 22:34:08 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Scott Wood) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:34:08 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.2.20030429150449.018fec70@mail.myblueheaven.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030429153144.018a3308@mail.myblueheaven.com> At 03:11 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: > Did you get What A Cache restored? I sent the admin a note and she said she would put it back, but it hasn't happened yet. I can see how it was confused, my cache is the closest one listed and has ABS/PVC in the description. I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a place where cache hiders can post the final coordinates for multi and puzzle caches so that the admins know who to contact? They could keep the info hidden from everyone else. Scott scott@myblueheaven.com www.myblueheaven.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Tue Apr 29 22:45:48 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Tim Giron) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:45:48 -0400 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus Message-ID: <20030429224554.JGZI21547.fed1mtao04.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Kind of a knee-jerk reaction on the admin's part for them to archive it without first contacting you though. Tim Team AZFastFeet From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 01:48:17 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Trisha) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 18:48:17 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Fire restrictions Message-ID: <20030429184818.1945.h003.c000.wm@mail.brasher.com.criticalpath.net> Yup.....we just started our website (my hubby and I are the webmasters) check out www.ycjp.org ! Trisha "Lightning" Prescott On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 15:29:03 -0700, Donn Sanford wrote: > > >>>>>Sunday we had more evac training, as our Jeep Posse is helping to > train some of the other volunteer groups.>>>> > > This sounds interesting -- is there a website explaining the Jeep > Posse and > what you do? > > Donn > Tucson > > -----Original Message----- > From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com > [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of > Trisha > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 2:32 PM > To: listserv@azgeocaching.com > Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Fire restrictions > > > All I have heard right now on the news is starting May 7, it will be a > "NO Fires NO Campfires NO smoking" restrictions from Yuma on up the > River area. > > Our Forest Service guy spoke with us on Sat at training (we had camp > evacuation training for the 20 plus summer camps in the urban/forest > interface area) and said that no date is set YET to start > restrictions. They try everything else before actual closures, but > everybody is going to be extra careful. He said the New Mexico is BONE > dry (worse than us, apparently) and that about a week after they start > having fires, look out around here. > > Sunday we had more evac training, as our Jeep Posse is helping to > train some of the other volunteer groups. Channel 2 (NBC) from > Flagstaff was there and I was actually on the 10 pm News on Sunday > night! (Sitting in the command/communication vehicle) > > If I hear anything I will post. > > Trisha "Lightning" > Prescott > > > On Mon, 28 Apr 2003 23:19:16 -0700, "Jerry Nelson" wrote: > > > > > > > > > � > � > I believe this is only near the Colorado River on > Arizona's western border. > � > � > � > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > gale and mike > To: listserv@azgeocaching.com > Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 10:55 > PM > Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Fire > restrictions > > > > I just heard on the news that fire restrictions will begin on BLM > lands May 5th. Have you heard anything new on the fire dangers > Trisha? > > Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable > changes� On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- > so:"Something hidden.� Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges > --� "Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. > Go!" > > � > > Rudyard Kipling�,�� The Explorer� > 1898 > > > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection > service: 2 months FREE* > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching > mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, > subscribe or > unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > Arizona's > Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 02:09:53 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Rob Brinkerhoff) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:09:53 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus Message-ID: <002c01c30ebd$9712b7e0$07940044@tc.ph.cox.net> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C30E82.EA818540 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes folks that would be my cache, "My Own Private Arizona". I will = temporarily archive it and retrieve the container. It was labeled but I will add my new and = improved sticker design so another mistake like this will not happen again. I will also contact = PCC and retrieve my canister. I am very glad the officer was so understanding and my = apologize for freaking out him and the biology instructor. And thanks to Scott Wood for contacting = me and giving me a heads up. Also, thanks to Scott for the original (at least I think) = design of the container. It is perfect for caches that sit out in the the Arizona sun for days on = end..unfound...and it keeps t he moister from the Monsoons and the rats out.=20 And no I do not "lurk' on this web server. I subscribed a few months ago = for a week but couldn't handle all the email and ... Any how, I've resubscribed, at = least for a little while, so=20 that I can defend myself and my caches ;-). =20 There may be several caches within a kilometer or so of MOPA but only = gadget man and the shadow knows for sure. -Rob (Wily Javelina) Yeah, I know which one you are thinking of (I think) and it's probably a kilometer away from PCC while My Own Private Arizona is just north of = the Pima CC baseball field. It wasn't clear to me whose property that was, though I am not surprised that it is PCC. I don't know if Rob subscribes to this list either. I've never seen = him post to it if he lurks on it. Did you get What A Cache restored? Jim. On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Scott Wood wrote: > At 02:58 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >=20 > >Hey Scott, > > That sounds like My Own Private Arizona, both in location and = description. > >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=3D45561 > > > > You should contact Rob of Wily Javelina. I think he lives closer = to the > >cache than the Pima CC Baseball field is to the cache..... >=20 > There is one other cache of his that the final location is in that = general=20 > area. I don't recall Private Arizona being in a PVC/ABS setup. I have = sent=20 > him an email about it but have yet to hear back from him. I wasn't = sure if=20 > he was on this list or not. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Scott >=20 > scott@myblueheaven.com > www.myblueheaven.com >=20 > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching >=20 > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com >=20 Jim Scotti Lunar & Planetary Laboratory University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721 USA = http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/ =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- brinkerhoff@cox.net ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C30E82.EA818540 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes folks that would be my cache, = "My Own=20 Private Arizona". I will temporarily archive it

and retrieve the container. It was = labeled but I=20 will add my new and improved sticker design

so another mistake like this will not = happen again.=20 I will also contact PCC and retrieve my

canister. I am very glad the officer = was so=20 understanding and my apologize for freaking out

him and the biology=20 instructor. And thanks to Scott Wood for contacting me and giving me=20 a

heads up. Also, thanks to Scott for the = original=20 (at least I think) design of the container. It is

perfect for caches that sit out in=20 the the Arizona sun for days on end..unfound...and = it keeps=20 t

he moister from the=20 Monsoons and the rats = out.=20

And no I do not "lurk' on this web = server. I=20 subscribed a few months ago for a week

but couldn't handle all the email and = ... Any how,=20 I've resubscribed, at least for a little while, so

that I can defend myself and my caches = ;-). =20

There may be several caches within a = kilometer or=20 so of MOPA but only gadget man = and

the shadow knows for sure.

-Rob (Wily Javelina)

Yeah, I know which one you are thinking of (I = think) and=20 it's probably a
kilometer away from PCC while My Own Private Arizona = is just=20 north of the
Pima CC baseball field. It wasn't clear to me = whose=20 property that was,
though I am not surprised that it is = PCC.
  =20 I don't know if Rob subscribes to this list either. I've never = seen=20 him
post to it if he lurks on it.
   Did you get What A = Cache=20 restored?

Jim.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003, Scott Wood=20 wrote:

> At 02:58 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you = wrote:
>=20
> >Hey Scott,
> >    = That sounds=20 like My Own Private Arizona, both in location and = description.
>=20 >htt= p://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=3D45561
>= =20 >
> >    You should contact Rob of = Wily=20 Javelina. I think he lives closer to the
> >cache = than the=20 Pima CC Baseball field is to the cache.....
> =
> There=20 is one other cache of his that the final location is in that general=20
> area. I don't recall Private Arizona being in a = PVC/ABS=20 setup. I have sent
> him an email about it but have yet to = hear=20 back from him. I wasn't sure if
> he was on this = list or=20 not.
>
>
>
>=20 Scott
>
> scott@myblueheaven.com
= >=20 www.myblueheaven.com
>
>=20 ____________________________________________________________
><= I>=20 Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com>=20 To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
> = http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>=20
> Arizona's Geocaching Resource
> http://www.azgeocaching.com
= >=20

Jim Scotti
Lunar & Planetary Laboratory
University = of=20 Arizona
Tucson, AZ 85721=20 USA           &nbs= p;    =20 http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/= ~jscotti/   =20

----------------------------------------------------------------= -----------
brinkerhoff@cox.net
<= /BODY> ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C30E82.EA818540-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 02:32:15 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (listserv@azgeocaching.com) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 19:32:15 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Arizona Geocaching Rendezvous In-Reply-To: <012001c3016a$c7135540$f950a8c0@default> Message-ID: <017f01c30ec0$b63f0940$1e01a8c0@connie> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0180_01C30E86.09E03140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just wanted to send out a thank you to all that attended and participated in the rendezvous this weekend. It was a HUGE success and a fun time by all. We had 51 people out on Saturday and 21 stayed for the potluck. I think we had enough food to serve the geocaching community. Come to think of it every meal was a potluck. Cody and Cheryl of CBX2 were a hit with their fried turkey and Dale and Marian of WeFindUm were our master chefs of the griddle for pancakes. We had people from all over the state attend, people from Green Valley, Tucson, Showlow, Prescott, east/west valley area and even Queen Valley. Check out the cache page for more info on winners of the events. (GCEBD5) Of course we will be posting pics on our web site and on the listserve. Thank you! Connie and Larry Team "Wyle E" ------=_NextPart_000_0180_01C30E86.09E03140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just=20 wanted to send out a thank you to all that attended and = participated in=20 the rendezvous this weekend. It was a HUGE success and a fun = time by=20 all. We had 51 people out on Saturday and 21 stayed for the = potluck. I=20 think we had enough food to serve the geocaching community. Come to = think of it=20 every meal was a potluck. Cody and Cheryl of CBX2 were a hit with their = fried=20 turkey and Dale and Marian of WeFindUm were our master chefs of the = griddle for=20 pancakes. We had people from all over the state attend, people from = Green=20 Valley, Tucson, Showlow, Prescott, east/west valley area and even Queen = Valley.=20 Check out the cache page for more info on winners of the events. = (GCEBD5) Of=20 course we will be posting pics on our web site and on the=20 listserve.

Thank=20 you!

Connie=20 and Larry

Team=20 "Wyle E"

------=_NextPart_000_0180_01C30E86.09E03140-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 04:37:28 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (findstuff) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 21:37:28 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] rattle snake breaking In-Reply-To: <001801c3087d$1fc452c0$bfd36844@ph.cox.net> Message-ID: <00a301c30ed2$35650600$6400a8c0@win2k> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C30E97.8907B4A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Also, Partners Training School does it for about $50. I had my buddy done last summer and I am glad I did. http://www.snakeproofing.com/ -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of WOLFB8 Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 8:13 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: [Az-Geocaching] rattle snake breaking found a place that will snake train your pup for $65. They use a rattler and a normal snake to teach them to stay away from all snakes.. the # 602-272-8008 Libby We will be known by the tracks we leave behind ------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C30E97.8907B4A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Also,=20 Partners Training School does it for about $50. I had my buddy = done last=20 summer and I am glad I did.

http://www.snakeproofing.com/<= /SPAN>

-----Original = Message-----
From:=20 az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com=20 [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com] On Behalf Of=20 WOLFB8
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 8:13 PM
To:=20 listserv@azgeocaching.com
Subject: [Az-Geocaching] rattle = snake=20 breaking

found a place that will snake train = your pup for=20 $65. They use a rattler and a normal snake to teach them to stay = away=20 from all snakes.. the # 602-272-8008

Libby

We will be known by the tracks we leave=20 behind
------=_NextPart_000_00A4_01C30E97.8907B4A0-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Tue Apr 29 19:59:01 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Obuch, Gregg) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 12:59:01 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus Message-ID: This sounds like it could be the My Own Private Arizona Cache. It is just northeast of the PCC West Campus and uses a PVC pipe as a container. Last time I was at this cache there was a Team My Blue Heaven key chain in the cache, thus the link to Scott. Gregg of MO & GO From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 05:22:08 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Scott Wood) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:22:08 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030429222015.01adca98@mail.myblueheaven.com> At 12:59 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >This sounds like it could be the My Own Private Arizona Cache. It is just >northeast of the PCC West Campus and uses a PVC pipe as a container. Last >time I was at this cache there was a Team My Blue Heaven key chain in the >cache, thus the link to Scott. I had had forgotten that MOPA was a PVC pipe. After a few more messages with geocahing, it appears that mine was the closest one in the general area that actually said in the description that it was a pvc container. They just assumed that it was mine. I agree with earlier statements though, it would have been nice if they would have waited a little before archiving my cache. They still have turned it back on, hopefully tomorrow. Scott scott@myblueheaven.com www.myblueheaven.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 05:22:34 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Scott Wood) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2003 22:22:34 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache on Pima Campus In-Reply-To: <002c01c30ebd$9712b7e0$07940044@tc.ph.cox.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20030429222217.01ae4268@mail.myblueheaven.com> --=====================_102623895==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 07:09 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote: >him and the biology instructor. And thanks to Scott Wood for contacting me >and giving me a >heads up. Also, thanks to Scott for the original (at least I think) design >of the container. It is >perfect for caches that sit out in the the Arizona sun for days on >end..unfound...and it keeps t >he moister from the Monsoons and the rats out. > You are welcome on both counts. Scott scott@myblueheaven.com www.myblueheaven.com --=====================_102623895==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:09 PM 4/29/2003 -0700, you wrote:

him and the biology instructor. And thanks to Scott Wood for contacting me and giving me a
heads up. Also, thanks to Scott for the original (at least I think) design of the container. It is
perfect for caches that sit out in the the Arizona sun for days on end..unfound...and it keeps t
he moister from the Monsoons and the rats out.

You are welcome on both counts.

Scott

scott@myblueheaven.com

www.myblueheaven.com
--=====================_102623895==_.ALT-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 07:07:13 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Scott Sparks) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 00:07:13 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Arizona Geocachers' Shame Message-ID: <3EAF7621.4060206@mchsi.com> I don't know how many of you (if any) noticed that last month (March) an 'out-of-towner' breezed into the Phoenix metro area and swiftly blew away the record for the most Arizona Caches Found in One Month. At the time, we heard a lot of grumbling from others like, '"Sure, if we didn't already have so many finds, we could do that." We, of Team Sprocket, were apalled that a cacher from out of state should hold an Arizona record. :-[ In an effort to disperse the dark cloud of shame that hovered over all Arizona cachers, we have consequently rectified that revoltin' development. No need to thank us. :-D It's our pleasure to represent the Arizona Geocaching community. Now, who's up for spending next month in Illinois, picking up a couple hundred caches? ;-) -- Team Sprocket From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 15:03:15 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Brian LaFrance) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 08:03:15 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Arizona Geocachers' Shame In-Reply-To: <3EAF7621.4060206@mchsi.com> Message-ID: A couple hundred would be hard in Illinois. I was there for a week at Christmas and found that even their urban caches (which were actually within their forest preserves) took quite a bit of hiking. There were even a couple that were only about 100 yards from the road but required a 2+ mile hike to cross the river that was between the road and the caches. We're spoiled here in AZ since our washes and rivers rarely hinder our caching outings. Another problem we had was that the drive between caches took a lot longer than it would here in Arizona. It made me appreciate how easy most caches here in Arizona are to get. Brian Team LeapLab -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of Scott Sparks Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:07 AM To: az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Arizona Geocachers' Shame I don't know how many of you (if any) noticed that last month (March) an 'out-of-towner' breezed into the Phoenix metro area and swiftly blew away the record for the most Arizona Caches Found in One Month. At the time, we heard a lot of grumbling from others like, '"Sure, if we didn't already have so many finds, we could do that." We, of Team Sprocket, were apalled that a cacher from out of state should hold an Arizona record. :-[ In an effort to disperse the dark cloud of shame that hovered over all Arizona cachers, we have consequently rectified that revoltin' development. No need to thank us. :-D It's our pleasure to represent the Arizona Geocaching community. Now, who's up for spending next month in Illinois, picking up a couple hundred caches? ;-) -- Team Sprocket ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 16:10:52 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Jerry Nelson) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:10:52 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees References: Message-ID: <002d01c30f33$14000440$23fb6a44@ph.cox.net> I checked my Why? cache today after a couple no finds and a report of bees. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=52218 The cache is still in place and sure enough, so are the bees! A nice 2-3 pound swarm about three feet from the cache. I've kept bees as a hobby in the past but had to give up this fascinating activity because of the obvious problems of having bees in the city with non-understanding neighbors. It was hard to resist the urge to grab my old equipment and hive the little suckers. I miss all that good honey. Virtually all wild swarms in this part of the country are mixed with the Africanized Killer Bee strain. They're aggressive and need to be avoided. I'll temporarily disable this until it's safe. This one can still be had if you want to go caching in a bee mask, gloves and jumpsuit. In a park this large what's the chance a swarm would choose to perch right here? Bee facts: In the spring bees follow the swarming instinct to increase their number of colonies. They raise a new, second queen who leaves with about half the bees in the old colony. Unless a new home is found quickly, they set up temporary quarters by hanging in a clump, usually on a tree limb. Scout bees then search for a permanent home, maybe in a cliff crevice or someone's attic. In a mild climate like Arizona's, I've seen bees that decide to stay and build comb right on a tree limb but this is rare. My guess is that the cache bees will be on their way soon and I'll reopen it. Jerry Offtrail From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 16:45:13 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Brent Milner) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:45:13 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Arizona Geocachers' Shame In-Reply-To: <3EAF7621.4060206@mchsi.com> Message-ID: Way to get that record back in the "family" Team Sprocket! I will be going to Chicago in May, but only for Memorial Day weekend. I don't suppose I could break the record in two or three days, but does anyone have a favorite Chicago cache that they can recommend? Just got back from Hawai'i last week, and broke out of my 5-month slump of inactivity. There are some beautiful caches on the island of Kaua'i. If you're planning a vacation and looking for a good place, I suggest Kaua'i. Before my vacation, there were only 19 active caches on the island, and most are on fun adventures. I have been staying up late the last couple nights entering my logs and uploading pictures. I'm not finished yet, but I'm enjoying it. So much so, that I sent in my $30 membership to geocaching.com. To me, it is a small price to pay for all the fun. Back in the saddle again, FroBro Q-Tip -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of Scott Sparks Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:07 AM To: az-geocaching@listserv.azgeocaching.com Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Arizona Geocachers' Shame I don't know how many of you (if any) noticed that last month (March) an 'out-of-towner' breezed into the Phoenix metro area and swiftly blew away the record for the most Arizona Caches Found in One Month. At the time, we heard a lot of grumbling from others like, '"Sure, if we didn't already have so many finds, we could do that." We, of Team Sprocket, were apalled that a cacher from out of state should hold an Arizona record. :-[ In an effort to disperse the dark cloud of shame that hovered over all Arizona cachers, we have consequently rectified that revoltin' development. No need to thank us. :-D It's our pleasure to represent the Arizona Geocaching community. Now, who's up for spending next month in Illinois, picking up a couple hundred caches? ;-) -- Team Sprocket ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com ==== This message and any attachments are confidential. Unauthorized use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited, and this message must be destroyed immediately if received by an unauthorized recipient. ==== From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 16:55:46 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Brian Cluff) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:55:46 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees In-Reply-To: <002d01c30f33$14000440$23fb6a44@ph.cox.net> References: <002d01c30f33$14000440$23fb6a44@ph.cox.net> Message-ID: <3EB00012.6060304@Snaptek.com> Jerry Nelson wrote: >Virtually all wild swarms in this part of the country are mixed with the >Africanized Killer Bee strain. They're aggressive and need to be avoided. >I'll temporarily disable this until it's safe. This one can still be had if >you want to go caching in a bee mask, gloves and jumpsuit. In a park this >large what's the chance a swarm would choose to perch right here? > > Just doctor the description and change the difficulty to a 5. It does say that a 5 is for caches that "require special equiptment", and a bee keeper outfit sure sounds like special equiptment to me. Brian Cluff Team Snaptek From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 17:52:32 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Jason Poulter) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:52:32 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees In-Reply-To: <3EB00012.6060304@Snaptek.com> References: <002d01c30f33$14000440$23fb6a44@ph.cox.net> <3EB00012.6060304@Snaptek.com> Message-ID: <3EB00D60.5010908@snaptek.com> or an epinephrine shot for when you get stung attempting it jason Brian Cluff wrote: > Jerry Nelson wrote: > >> Virtually all wild swarms in this part of the country are mixed with the >> Africanized Killer Bee strain. They're aggressive and need to be avoided. >> I'll temporarily disable this until it's safe. This one can still be >> had if >> you want to go caching in a bee mask, gloves and jumpsuit. In a park this >> large what's the chance a swarm would choose to perch right here? >> >> > > Just doctor the description and change the difficulty to a 5. It does > say that a 5 is for caches that "require special equiptment", and a bee > keeper outfit sure sounds like special equiptment to me. > > Brian Cluff > Team Snaptek > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 20:59:22 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Trisha) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 13:59:22 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees Message-ID: <20030430135924.7428.h003.c000.wm@mail.brasher.com.criticalpath.net> Fascinating info, thanks Jerry. I am allergic to bees (carry a sting kit) so glad to have the warning on any cache that has ALOT of bees nearby.... Trisha On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:10:52 -0700, "Jerry Nelson" wrote: > > I checked my Why? cache today after a couple no finds and a report of > bees. > http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=52218 > > The cache is still in place and sure enough, so are the bees! A nice > 2-3 > pound swarm about three feet from the cache. I've kept bees as a hobby > in > the past but had to give up this fascinating activity because of the > obvious > problems of having bees in the city with non-understanding neighbors. > It > was hard to resist the urge to grab my old equipment and hive the > little > suckers. I miss all that good honey. > > Virtually all wild swarms in this part of the country are mixed with > the > Africanized Killer Bee strain. They're aggressive and need to be > avoided. > I'll temporarily disable this until it's safe. This one can still be > had if > you want to go caching in a bee mask, gloves and jumpsuit. In a park > this > large what's the chance a swarm would choose to perch right here? > > Bee facts: In the spring bees follow the swarming instinct to increase > their > number of colonies. They raise a new, second queen who leaves with > about > half the bees in the old colony. Unless a new home is found quickly, > they > set up temporary quarters by hanging in a clump, usually on a tree > limb. > Scout bees then search for a permanent home, maybe in a cliff crevice > or > someone's attic. In a mild climate like Arizona's, I've seen bees that > decide to stay and build comb right on a tree limb but this is rare. My > guess is that the cache bees will be on their way soon and I'll reopen > it. > > Jerry > Offtrail > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 21:28:14 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (listserv@azgeocaching.com) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:28:14 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees In-Reply-To: <20030430135924.7428.h003.c000.wm@mail.brasher.com.criticalpath.net> Message-ID: <01a001c30f5f$685952e0$1e01a8c0@connie> What Trisha, you don't want to put the bee suit on and go in disguise to claim the find? --Connie Team "Wyle E" > From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 21:48:02 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (janelle n) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:48:02 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] easy caches Message-ID: Can anyone recommend East Valley/Tempe caches that are super handicap accessible? Half of our team is currently laid up with a bum foot and isn't too handy with his crutches. I wanted to get a short list that we could go search for, just to get him out of the house, with minimal walking required. I was thinking caches like "No Breeze" or "A Rosey Outlook." Unfortunately, I think we may have found most of the super easies that are nearby. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. Team Bumbling Bee, Aaron & Janelle. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 22:07:33 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Dennis Wodarz) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:07:33 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Chicago caches In-Reply-To: <200304301905.MAA05124@ns2.sequoia.net> Message-ID: <000e01c30f64$e6699050$0b00a8c0@woodlaptop> FroBro Q-tip, I've only done a few Chicago caches despite the fact that my family is still all there and I'm the only one out here in Phoenix. However, I liked both of them. Guardian of Souls is in a spooky cemetery and Stone Faced is right downtown. There are a lot of caches in Busse Woods right close to where I grew up but I haven't attempted any of those yet. Last chance I got, everything was covered with a foot or so of snow and I just couldn't get motivated to go out in 0 degree temps. Next summer trip! Dennis From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 22:34:08 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Brent Milner) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:34:08 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] easy caches In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Howdy Team Bumbling Bee, Aaron & Janelle, Make sure you do Rosey Outlook on a day when they're not irrigating the lawn. I went on a Wednesday and couldn't get anywhere near the cache. Here are some other handicap-accessible ones that I remember either being of the park 'n' cache variety, or short walks with only slight inclines to the spot. Honeybee Secret Garden Fortune Cookie (once it becomes re-enabled) a "Blockbuster" cache Kyrene Del Norte Put me in coach! Chandler Mini (don't do this one on Sunday) A Fowled Cache That should get you started anyway. I'm sure there's lots of others that are available. I haven't found too many, 'cause I've been slacking for the past 5 months or so. FroBro Q-Tip -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of janelle n Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 2:48 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: [Az-Geocaching] easy caches Can anyone recommend East Valley/Tempe caches that are super handicap accessible? Half of our team is currently laid up with a bum foot and isn't too handy with his crutches. I wanted to get a short list that we could go search for, just to get him out of the house, with minimal walking required. I was thinking caches like "No Breeze" or "A Rosey Outlook." Unfortunately, I think we may have found most of the super easies that are nearby. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. Team Bumbling Bee, Aaron & Janelle. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com ==== This message and any attachments are confidential. Unauthorized use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited, and this message must be destroyed immediately if received by an unauthorized recipient. ==== From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 22:38:07 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Brent Milner) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:38:07 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Chicago caches In-Reply-To: <000e01c30f64$e6699050$0b00a8c0@woodlaptop> Message-ID: Thanks Dennis ... er ... um ... I mean FroBro D-Dubs! :) I will see if we can make some time for geocaching while in Chicago. I am hoping we can spend a day in the downtown area, near Navy Pier. Maybe also go listen to some blues somewhere. FroBro Q-Tip -----Original Message----- From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of Dennis Wodarz Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:08 PM To: listserv@azgeocaching.com Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Chicago caches FroBro Q-tip, I've only done a few Chicago caches despite the fact that my family is still all there and I'm the only one out here in Phoenix. However, I liked both of them. Guardian of Souls is in a spooky cemetery and Stone Faced is right downtown. There are a lot of caches in Busse Woods right close to where I grew up but I haven't attempted any of those yet. Last chance I got, everything was covered with a foot or so of snow and I just couldn't get motivated to go out in 0 degree temps. Next summer trip! Dennis ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com ==== This message and any attachments are confidential. Unauthorized use or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited, and this message must be destroyed immediately if received by an unauthorized recipient. ==== From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 22:51:57 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Cody Brown) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 15:51:57 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] easy caches Message-ID: I just did "World Record: Kept" "GCDEDD" at lunch. Its in Kawanis Park and would be handicap accessible. Cody Team CBX2 |---------+---------------------------------------------> | | "janelle n" | | | | | | Sent by: | | | az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeo| | | caching.com | | | | | | | | | 04/30/03 02:48 PM | | | Please respond to listserv | | | | |---------+---------------------------------------------> >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: listserv@azgeocaching.com | | cc: | | bcc: | | Subject: [Az-Geocaching] easy caches | >----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Can anyone recommend East Valley/Tempe caches that are super handicap accessible? Half of our team is currently laid up with a bum foot and isn't too handy with his crutches. I wanted to get a short list that we could go search for, just to get him out of the house, with minimal walking required. I was thinking caches like "No Breeze" or "A Rosey Outlook." Unfortunately, I think we may have found most of the super easies that are nearby. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. Team Bumbling Bee, Aaron & Janelle. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ____________________________________________________________ Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching Arizona's Geocaching Resource http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 23:15:34 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Regan Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:15:34 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees References: <002d01c30f33$14000440$23fb6a44@ph.cox.net> Message-ID: <000b01c30f6e$685620c0$c5213941@fishkiller> Now on my last encounter with bees while caching I was of the mindset that if I didn't bother them they wouldn;t bother me and I was able to make the quickest log ever at the cache site...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Nelson" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 9:10 AM Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees > I checked my Why? cache today after a couple no finds and a report of bees. > http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=52218 > > The cache is still in place and sure enough, so are the bees! A nice 2-3 > pound swarm about three feet from the cache. I've kept bees as a hobby in > the past but had to give up this fascinating activity because of the obvious > problems of having bees in the city with non-understanding neighbors. It > was hard to resist the urge to grab my old equipment and hive the little > suckers. I miss all that good honey. > > Virtually all wild swarms in this part of the country are mixed with the > Africanized Killer Bee strain. They're aggressive and need to be avoided. > I'll temporarily disable this until it's safe. This one can still be had if > you want to go caching in a bee mask, gloves and jumpsuit. In a park this > large what's the chance a swarm would choose to perch right here? > > Bee facts: In the spring bees follow the swarming instinct to increase their > number of colonies. They raise a new, second queen who leaves with about > half the bees in the old colony. Unless a new home is found quickly, they > set up temporary quarters by hanging in a clump, usually on a tree limb. > Scout bees then search for a permanent home, maybe in a cliff crevice or > someone's attic. In a mild climate like Arizona's, I've seen bees that > decide to stay and build comb right on a tree limb but this is rare. My > guess is that the cache bees will be on their way soon and I'll reopen it. > > Jerry > Offtrail > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 23:20:13 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Regan Smith) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:20:13 -0700 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] easy caches References: Message-ID: <002a01c30f6f$0e52cdc0$c5213941@fishkiller> there is the Nearly in Harmony cache Kangaroo is Watching Friends Again umm then Most any cache RandMan has found ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brent Milner" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:34 PM Subject: RE: [Az-Geocaching] easy caches > Howdy Team Bumbling Bee, Aaron & Janelle, > > Make sure you do Rosey Outlook on a day when they're not irrigating the > lawn. I went on a Wednesday and couldn't get anywhere near the cache. Here > are some other handicap-accessible ones that I remember either being of the > park 'n' cache variety, or short walks with only slight inclines to the > spot. > > Honeybee > Secret Garden > Fortune Cookie (once it becomes re-enabled) > a "Blockbuster" cache > Kyrene Del Norte > Put me in coach! > Chandler Mini (don't do this one on Sunday) > A Fowled Cache > > That should get you started anyway. I'm sure there's lots of others that are > available. I haven't found too many, 'cause I've been slacking for the past > 5 months or so. > > FroBro Q-Tip > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com > [mailto:az-geocaching-admin@listserv.azgeocaching.com]On Behalf Of > janelle n > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 2:48 PM > To: listserv@azgeocaching.com > Subject: [Az-Geocaching] easy caches > > > > Can anyone recommend East Valley/Tempe caches that are super handicap > accessible? Half of our team is currently laid up with a bum foot and isn't > too handy with his crutches. I wanted to get a short list that we could go > search for, just to get him out of the house, with minimal walking required. > I was thinking caches like "No Breeze" or "A Rosey Outlook." Unfortunately, > I think we may have found most of the super easies that are nearby. Any > suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. > > Team Bumbling Bee, Aaron & Janelle. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com > > > ==== > This message and any attachments are confidential. Unauthorized use > or disclosure of this message is strictly prohibited, and this message > must be destroyed immediately if received by an unauthorized recipient. > ==== > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 23:29:13 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (gale and mike) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:29:13 +0000 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees Message-ID:

Thanks for the facts on bees and taking care of our safety. I am allergic to bees. We have tried to educate ourselves on the facts about Africanized bees and do routine checks around our home for bees. We found a swarm of bees at a cache we did recently, Holiday Cache. Fortunately it was at dusk so they were not active. I got out of there as soon as I realized what they were. I did see however a white substance they were clinging to in the bush. Could that have been the comb? I just assumed they were swarming temporarily, but what do I know.

>From: "Jerry Nelson"
>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>To:
>Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees
>Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 09:10:52 -0700
>
>I checked my Why? cache today after a couple no finds and a report of bees.
>http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=52218
>
>The cache is still in place and sure enough, so are the bees! A nice 2-3
>pound swarm about three feet from the cache. I've kept bees as a hobby in
>the past but had to give up this fascinating activity because of the obvious
>problems of having bees in the city with non-understanding neighbors. It
>was hard to resist the urge to grab my old equipment and hive the little
>suckers. I miss all that good honey.
>
>Virtually all wild swarms in this part of the country are mixed with the
>Africanized Killer Bee strain. They're aggressive and need to be avoided.
>I'll temporarily disable this until it's safe. This one can still be had if
>you want to go caching in a bee mask, gloves and jumpsuit. In a park this
>large what's the chance a swarm would choose to perch right here?
>
>Bee facts: In the spring bees follow the swarming instinct to increase their
>number of colonies. They raise a new, second queen who leaves with about
>half the bees in the old colony. Unless a new home is found quickly, they
>set up temporary quarters by hanging in a clump, usually on a tree limb.
>Scout bees then search for a permanent home, maybe in a cliff crevice or
>someone's attic. In a mild climate like Arizona's, I've seen bees that
>decide to stay and build comb right on a tree limb but this is rare. My
>guess is that the cache bees will be on their way soon and I'll reopen it.
>
>Jerry
>Offtrail
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com
>To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit:
>http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching
>
>Arizona's Geocaching Resource
>http://www.azgeocaching.com

Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 23:34:51 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (gale and mike) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:34:51 +0000 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees Message-ID:

A shot of epinephrine doesn't do any good if you've been stung so many times by Africanized bees. Years ago, a woman in Apache Junction was stung hundreds of times by Africanized bees. She died a few days later because the bee venom toxins overwhelmed her kidneys or liver and sent her into organ failure. Epinephrine only works to reduce the allergin effects on the body.

>From: Jason Poulter
>Reply-To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>To: listserv@azgeocaching.com
>Subject: Re: [Az-Geocaching] Cache Bees
>Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:52:32 -0700
>
>or an epinephrine shot for when you get stung attempting it
>
>jason
>
>

The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 23:42:01 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (gale and mike) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 23:42:01 +0000 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] New cacher and another reason to use GPS Message-ID:

A friend of mine sent me an e-mail recently. A coworker of his is a photography buff. She is interested in getting her own GPS to use with her photography. She does a lot of landscapes and nature photography and wants to be able to find places again. Is anyone out there a photographer and use their GPS like that? Any recommendations on what GPS she should get?

Till a voice, as bad as Conscience, rang interminable changes
On one everlasting Whisper day and night repeated -- so:
"Something hidden. Go and find it. Go and look behind the Ranges --
"Something lost behind the Ranges. Lost and waiting for you. Go!"

Rudyard Kipling , The Explorer 1898

Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 23:49:41 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (listserv@azgeocaching.com) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:49:41 -0400 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] (no subject) Message-ID: <20030430234941.TKUX1868.fed1mtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Ok, Brian and Jason are officially sadistic. :) Bee suit or epinephrine as cache tool requirements for finding a cache...that's about as bad as some of the contents in [url=http://ubbx.groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=2016058331&m=39960741&r=13360961#13360961]this[/url] thread. Specifically, the post/picture by Criminal. :) From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 23:53:09 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Ken Akerman) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Super-handicap accessible? Visit a museum In-Reply-To: <200304302320.QAA06119@ns2.sequoia.net> Message-ID: <20030430235309.98706.qmail@web21107.mail.yahoo.com> --0-904513022-1051746789=:98688 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Can anyone recommend East Valley/Tempe caches that are super handicap accessible? Half of our team is currently laid up with a bum foot and isn't too handy with his crutches. You can do any of the virtual museum caches. I have created the majority of them in the metropolitan area, but there are also museum caches in the Phoenix area by Wolfb8 and others. The ones I have created in Maricopa County are in Chandler, Tempe, Gilbert, Mesa, Scottsdale, Cave Creek, and Gila Bend, plus the Arizona Historical Society Museum at Papago Park. I also have a virtual cache at Mystery Castle, near the Central Ave. entrance to South Mountain Park. The Hall of Flame museum has an easy cache on museum property, but you don't have to go into the museum to find it. However, I recommend that museum as a good place to visit. Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer) --0-904513022-1051746789=:98688 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Can anyone recommend East Valley/Tempe caches that are super handicap accessible? Half of our team is currently laid up with a bum foot and isn't too handy with his crutches.

You can do any of the virtual museum caches. I have created the majority of them in the metropolitan area, but there are also museum caches in the Phoenix area by Wolfb8 and others. The ones I have created in Maricopa County are in Chandler, Tempe, Gilbert, Mesa, Scottsdale, Cave Creek, and Gila Bend, plus the Arizona Historical Society Museum at Papago Park. I also have a virtual cache at Mystery Castle, near the Central Ave. entrance to South Mountain Park. The Hall of Flame museum has an easy cache on museum property, but you don't have to go into the museum to find it. However, I recommend that museum as a good place to visit.

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)
--0-904513022-1051746789=:98688-- From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 23:57:47 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (listserv@azgeocaching.com) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:57:47 -0400 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Re: easy caches Message-ID: <20030430235745.TBLX22750.fed1mtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Crismon Tide is definitely handicap accessible, but beware of sand if you have that bum foot in a case with an open end... :) Also, I plan on re-enabling "You're Number 1!" tomorrow when I replace the container and logsheet that were pilfered a few weeks ago. That one is literally a drive-by cache. Both of the above-mentioned caches are approx. 1 mile apart, but in the FAR east valley (ellsworth/broadway and crismon/Coral Bell (south of broadway)). From listserv@azgeocaching.com Wed Apr 30 23:59:21 2003 From: listserv@azgeocaching.com (Loran Wilcox) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:59:21 -0400 Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Arizona Geocachers' Shame References: <3EAF7621.4060206@mchsi.com> Message-ID: <006101c30f74$852010c0$0500a8c0@one> There is no shame in an outsider getting the most finds for a month in AZ. Look at it as a complement to the area. If I where there now, I would have 117 new cache to find within 25 miles of where I lived. For someone that hasn't been there before they would have 275 to choose from. It is easy to see how someone can run up big numbers in a hurry. But I must congratulate Team Sprocket for finding 162 after having already 200 finds. This feat is quite a bit harder. I know it gets much harder to find available caches close by after awhile and you must travel further, hike longer, and climb more peaks just to satisfy the caching urge. Team Sand Dollar ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Sparks" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:07 AM Subject: [Az-Geocaching] Arizona Geocachers' Shame > I don't know how many of you (if any) noticed that last month (March) an > 'out-of-towner' breezed into the Phoenix metro area and swiftly blew > away the record for the most Arizona Caches Found in One Month. At the > time, we heard a lot of grumbling from others like, '"Sure, if we didn't > already have so many finds, we could do that." We, of Team Sprocket, > were apalled that a cacher from out of state should hold an Arizona > record. :-[ In an effort to disperse the dark cloud of shame that > hovered over all Arizona cachers, we have consequently rectified that > revoltin' development. No need to thank us. :-D It's our pleasure to > represent the Arizona Geocaching community. Now, who's up for spending > next month in Illinois, picking up a couple hundred caches? ;-) > > -- Team Sprocket > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Az-Geocaching mailing list listserv@azgeocaching.com > To edit your setting, subscribe or unsubscribe visit: > http://listserv.azgeocaching.com/mailman/listinfo/az-geocaching > > Arizona's Geocaching Resource > http://www.azgeocaching.com

Thompson = Peak	GC3A94
FH EnviroCharity	GC5484
Musicbox	GC5818
Good Clean Fun	GCCB2B
WazUp	GCDCF3
NoWashAway	GCE4A5