[Az-Geocaching] Fw: Geocaching- AZ site stewards
Ken
listserv@azgeocaching.com
Thu, 22 Aug 2002 06:58:23 -0700
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I thought the group here would be interested in reading the following =
coversation that I had with Jill McCormick who is a Land Steward in the =
Tucson area. Jill had contacted Geocaching.com and requested to speak to =
me abut here concerns. Seems we need more Stewards like her.
Ken
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jill McCormick=20
To: Ken=20
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 5:22 AM
Subject: Re: Geocaching- AZ site stewards
Ken,
Yes, you have my permission to post our conversation on the web site. I =
do plan to join the mailing list and will encourage as many other site =
stewards as possible to do the same. It seems you and I both have the =
same viewpoint that the only way to come to an agreement is for there to =
be communication between the two groups. Hopefully everyone will keep an =
open mind and realize that both parties only want what is best. Thank =
you for all your efforts and for having an interest in preservation. It =
has been a pleasure talking to you and hope to in the future see you at =
a site steward event as an Arizona Site Steward.
Thank you,
Jill
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ken=20
To: Jill McCormick=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: Geocaching- AZ site stewards
Jill,
I agree and with your thoughts and with your permission I would =
like to post our conversation on the Az Geocaching web site. I again =
encourage you, and the other site stewards to join so that we all can =
exchange ideas and concerns without things getting blown out of =
proportions. The group on this list can be pretty vocal at times but =
from what I've seen they are open minded and willing to listen to =
anyone's point of view. If a geocache is found affecting an =
archeological site in AZ this mailing list would probably be the =
quickest way to address the issue and get it moved. As for the rest of =
my geocaches I have only one left that is near one lonely spiral =
petroglyph that I found while hiking near my home. The rest are virtual =
caches and require no hunting at any actual sites.
Ken
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jill McCormick=20
To: Ken=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 12:20 PM
Subject: Re: Geocaching- AZ site stewards
Hello Ken,
It is good to finally get to communicate directly with you. I =
totally agree about the AZ Republic article I do not think that it gave =
a fair perspective of the situation. I would like to apologize for the =
site stewards. This issue has been hotly contested by the Site Stewards =
around Phoenix for quite awhile. I have several geocaches in my area =
(Yuma) and have never had any problem with vandalism of sites. I have =
repeatedly questioned them on their opposition to geocachers in general =
only to hear that geocachers have destroyed many sites in the Phoenix =
area when I ask what proof they can produce to prove it was geocachers I =
get th response, " Well we found a geocache there so it must be them". =
This is the reason I asked them to be the one to make contact with =
geocachers. I feel I have a more openminded position to this issue. I =
believe many site stewards are bias against geocachers and are willing =
to listen to half truths and falsehoods. I am happy to hear that =
geocachers are out there cleaning up our wilderness areas and educating =
our youth on preservation and our history. It would be great to enlist =
you all as site stewards to help us in the cause. I know as with any =
organization there can be bad apples, but in the time I have worked with =
the geocachers I have only had great cooperation. That is why I have =
asked to have the geocaches moved and not removed. Some site stewards =
are out for blood and to avert a nasty situation I think it would be =
easiest just to move the caches away from the sites. =20
Thanks,
Jill =20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ken=20
To: Jill McCormick=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: Geocaching- AZ site stewards
Hello Jill,
Since the article in the Az Republic was posted this has been =
a major topic on the mailing list at http://www.azgeocaching.com/ . =
Brian Cluff runs this site and it is a great resource for anyone =
interested in Geocaching in Arizona. I would like to suggest that you =
pass this information along to any of the site stewards that have access =
to the internet and encourage them to join the mailing list. This site =
will enable the free flow of communications between the stewards and the =
majority of the Geocaching community in Arizona.
I found the article in the Arizona republic very poorly =
researched and considered it a "hit piece" against my hobby. If the =
quotes made by the land stewards, to the reporter, are accurate I found =
them very inflammatory and insinuated that I violated some law. I have =
personally experienced the inaccuracies of some reporters and realize =
the quotes may not be accurate, or were taken out of context. Still I =
found the article and alleged statements by the site stewards highly =
offensive. One of the reasons that I enjoy Geocaching is the opportunity =
that it gives for me to show my children (4 yrs and 11yrs) the beauty =
and history that our state has to offer. =20
Upon reflection I realize that it is not a good idea to place =
cache container too close to an archeological site as the number of =
visitors looking for the cache could have the potential to cause damage. =
Since the cache container from my "Sign From The Past III" has been =
removed by the site steward I have changed it to a "virtual" cache. What =
this means is the cache hunter simply needs to find the petroglyps and =
take photograph of them. As a virtual cache there is no need for the =
geocacher to "hunt" for a hidden container and should eliminate any =
possible accidental damage. As for the site It is clearly marked on a =
topographical map and has a nearby 4x4 road that is only .25 miles away. =
While visiting this location the only thing I noticed were the actual =
glyphs and did not see any pottery shards or nearby ruins. Since the =
site was posted in February it has only had 4 groups visit it.=20
Ken
A.K.A.
The Evil "WhereRWee" geocacher ;)
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jill McCormick=20
To: Kenh199@cox.net=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:18 PM
Subject: Geocaching- AZ site stewards
Ken,
Hi, apparently we have been having some email difficulties and I =
did not receive your email last Friday Bryan forwarded your message to =
me today. As Bryan has probably told you I am an Arizona Site Steward. =
The reason I wanted to contact you was to talk to you about geocaching. =
First off, I am in no way against geocaching. In fact, I have a longtime =
geocacher in my site steward region here in Yuma and he has educated me =
on the sport. However, in other regions of Arizona some site steward =
beleive that geocaching has been doing great harm to pristine =
archaeological sites by the increase in foot and vehicle travel. =
Beleive me, I in no way am saying that geocachers have no right to visit =
these areas. I have visited both the Arizona and Bryan's geocaching =
site many, many times and have read the logs of people removing trash =
from areas and enjoying the beauty of the desert and greatly appreciate =
your efforts. My goal in contacting you and other geocachers is to =
expedite an answer to the conflict existing here. What I would like to =
ask is if you and other geocachers who have geocaches near =
archaeological or historical sites would move these caches a safe =
distance from the site so that people who are only interested in finding =
the cache can do that without disturbing the site. Apparently around the =
Phoenix area several sites have been almost completely destroyed and it =
is beleived that the extra traffic from geocaching has played a part in =
this. I think if we moved these geocaches and allowed the site stewards =
to continue to monitor the sites, possibly we could then determine what =
part, if any geocaching played in this. Please let me know your =
feelings on this matter. I look forward to hearing your reply.
Sincerely,
Jill McCormick =20
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I thought the group here would be =
interested in=20
reading the following coversation that I had with Jill McCormick who is =
a Land=20
Steward in the Tucson area. Jill had contacted Geocaching.com and =
requested to=20
speak to me abut here concerns. Seems we need more Stewards like=20
her.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ken</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Djill@mackrackit-companies.com=20
href=3D"mailto:jill@mackrackit-companies.com">Jill McCormick</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dkenh199@cox.net =
href=3D"mailto:kenh199@cox.net">Ken</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 22, 2002 5:22 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: Geocaching- AZ site stewards</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ken,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Yes, you have my permission to post our =
conversation on the web site. I do plan to join the mailing list =
and will=20
encourage as many other site stewards as possible to do the same. =
It seems=20
you and I both have the same viewpoint that the only way to come to an =
agreement=20
is for there to be communication between the two groups. Hopefully =
everyone will=20
keep an open mind and realize that both parties only want what is =
best. =20
Thank you for all your efforts and for having an interest in =
preservation. =20
It has been a pleasure talking to you and hope to in the future see =
you at=20
a site steward event as an Arizona Site Steward.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jill</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkenh199@cox.net href=3D"mailto:kenh199@cox.net">Ken</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Djill@mackrackit-companies.com=20
href=3D"mailto:jill@mackrackit-companies.com">Jill McCormick</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 21, =
2002 7:58=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Geocaching- AZ =
site=20
stewards</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I agree and with =
your thoughts=20
and with your permission I would like to post our conversation on the =
Az=20
Geocaching web site. I again encourage you, and the other site =
stewards to=20
join so that we all can exchange ideas and concerns without things =
getting=20
blown out of proportions. The group on this list can be pretty =
vocal at=20
times but from what I've seen they are open minded and willing to =
listen to=20
anyone's point of view. If a geocache is found affecting an =
archeological site=20
in AZ this mailing list would probably be the quickest way to address =
the=20
issue and get it moved. As for the rest of my geocaches I have only =
one left=20
that is near one lonely spiral petroglyph that I found while =
hiking near=20
my home. The rest are virtual caches and require no hunting =
at any=20
actual sites.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ken</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djill@mackrackit-companies.com=20
href=3D"mailto:jill@mackrackit-companies.com">Jill McCormick</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dkenh199@cox.net=20
href=3D"mailto:kenh199@cox.net">Ken</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 21, =
2002 12:20=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Geocaching- AZ =
site=20
stewards</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Ken,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>It is good to finally get to =
communicate=20
directly with you. I totally agree about the AZ Republic =
article I do=20
not think that it gave a fair perspective of the situation. I =
would=20
like to apologize for the site stewards. This issue has been =
hotly=20
contested by the Site Stewards around Phoenix for quite =
awhile. I have=20
several geocaches in my area (Yuma) and have never had any problem =
with=20
vandalism of sites. I have repeatedly questioned them on their =
opposition to geocachers in general only to hear that geocachers =
have=20
destroyed many sites in the Phoenix area when I ask what proof they =
can=20
produce to prove it was geocachers I get th response, " Well we =
found a=20
geocache there so it must be them". This is the reason I asked =
them to=20
be the one to make contact with geocachers. I feel I have a =
more=20
openminded position to this issue. I believe many site =
stewards are=20
bias against geocachers and are willing to listen to half truths and =
falsehoods. I am happy to hear that geocachers are out there =
cleaning=20
up our wilderness areas and educating our youth on preservation and =
our=20
history. It would be great to enlist you all as site stewards to =
help us in=20
the cause. I know as with any organization there can be bad =
apples,=20
but in the time I have worked with the geocachers I have only =
had great=20
cooperation. That is why I have asked to have the geocaches moved =
and not=20
removed. Some site stewards are out for blood and to =
avert a=20
nasty situation I think it would be easiest just to move the =
caches=20
away from the sites. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jill </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dkenh199@cox.net href=3D"mailto:kenh199@cox.net">Ken</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Djill@mackrackit-companies.com=20
href=3D"mailto:jill@mackrackit-companies.com">Jill McCormick</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 20, =
2002 10:52=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Geocaching- AZ =
site=20
stewards</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello Jill,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Since the =
article in the=20
Az Republic was posted this has been a major topic on the mailing=20
list at <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.azgeocaching.com/">http://www.azgeocaching.com/</A>&nb=
sp;.=20
Brian Cluff runs this site and it is a great resource for anyone=20
interested in Geocaching in Arizona. I would like to suggest =
that you=20
pass this information along to any of the site stewards that =
have=20
access to the internet and encourage them to join the mailing =
list. This=20
site will enable the free flow of communications between the =
stewards and=20
the majority of the Geocaching community in Arizona.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I found the =
article in the=20
Arizona republic very poorly researched and considered it a "hit =
piece"=20
against my hobby. If the quotes made by the land =
stewards, to=20
the reporter, are accurate I found them very inflammatory and =
insinuated=20
that I violated some law. I have personally experienced =
the=20
inaccuracies of some reporters and realize the quotes may not be =
accurate,=20
or were taken out of context. Still I found the article and =
alleged=20
statements by the site stewards highly offensive. One of the =
reasons that=20
I enjoy Geocaching is the opportunity that it gives for me to =
show my=20
children (4 yrs and 11yrs) the beauty and history that =
our state=20
has to offer. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Upon =
reflection I realize=20
that it is not a good idea to place cache container too close =
to an=20
archeological site as the number of visitors looking for the =
cache=20
could have the potential to cause damage. Since the cache =
container=20
from my "Sign From The Past III" has been removed by the site =
steward I=20
have changed it to a "virtual" cache. What this means is the cache =
hunter=20
simply needs to find the petroglyps and =
take photograph of=20
them. As a virtual cache there is no need for the geocacher to=20
"hunt" for a hidden container and should eliminate =
any=20
possible accidental damage. As for the site It is clearly =
marked on a=20
topographical map and has a nearby 4x4 road that is only .25 miles =
away.=20
While visiting this location the only thing I noticed were the =
actual=20
glyphs and did not see any pottery shards or nearby =
ruins. Since the=20
site was posted in February it has only had 4 groups visit=20
it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ken</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>A.K.A.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Evil "WhereRWee" geocacher=20
;)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Djill@mackrackit-companies.com=20
href=3D"mailto:jill@mackrackit-companies.com">Jill McCormick</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3DKenh199@cox.net=20
href=3D"mailto:Kenh199@cox.net">Kenh199@cox.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 20, =
2002 1:18=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Geocaching- AZ =
site=20
stewards</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ken,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi, apparently we have been =
having some=20
email difficulties and I did not receive your email last Friday =
Bryan=20
forwarded your message to me today. As Bryan has probably =
told you=20
I am an Arizona Site Steward. The reason I wanted to =
contact you=20
was to talk to you about geocaching. First off, I am in no =
way=20
against geocaching. In fact, I have a longtime geocacher in my =
site=20
steward region here in Yuma and he has educated me on the =
sport. =20
However, in other regions of Arizona some site steward =
beleive that=20
geocaching has been doing great harm to pristine archaeological =
sites by=20
the increase in foot and vehicle travel. Beleive =
me, I in no=20
way am saying that geocachers have no right to visit these =
areas. =20
I have visited both the Arizona and Bryan's geocaching site =
many,=20
many times and have read the logs of people removing trash from =
areas=20
and enjoying the beauty of the desert and greatly =
appreciate your=20
efforts. My goal in contacting you and other geocachers is =
to=20
expedite an answer to the conflict existing here. What I =
would=20
like to ask is if you and other geocachers who have geocaches =
near=20
archaeological or historical sites would move these caches =
a safe=20
distance from the site so that people who are only =
interested in=20
finding the cache can do that without disturbing the site. =
Apparently=20
around the Phoenix area several sites have been almost=20
completely destroyed and it is beleived that the =
extra=20
traffic from geocaching has played a part in =
this. I=20
think if we moved these geocaches and allowed the site stewards =
to=20
continue to monitor the sites, possibly we could then determine =
what=20
part, if any geocaching played in this. Please let me know =
your=20
feelings on this matter. I look forward to hearing your=20
reply.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sincerely,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jill=20
=
McCormick </FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCK=
QUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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